Even if you have one, you still get the Nosy Parker questions and bullshit advice.
My mother called me a few weeks ago to tell me that my cousin Michael had read a book about how dangerous it is for older women to have children, and did I want his number to discuss it, because the best time to have another baby is NOW! NOW! NOW! But, y’know, she wasn’t trying to pressure us into having another baby. :rolleyes:
I blew her off, but she’s brought it up again.
Robin
Thank you. The person in question wasn’t mindboggling dull, but there’s still only so much I can say.
And besides, what do you do when you highly disapprove of fertility treatments in the first place? He does not know that and will not know that from me, at least not until his baby is 20. But the fact is, I do - and thus have run out of even more things to say.
I never ask anybody if they are planning to have kids unless the topic already comes up. Somehow people think I am a good sounding board.
Questioning people’s reproductive situation should be considered as personal as asking after their sex life.
My father-in-law’s visits are mercifully few and far between, but I’ll never forget the ringing silence around the table when he needled my sister-in-law and her husband with, “So, when are you going to get another bun in the oven? What’s the matter? Don’t you two know how it works?”
SIL had just gone through a year of thyroid troubles and was only starting to get her health back, let alone the impact on her fertility. And it wasn’t something she wanted to discuss in mixed company. And they very much wanted to give their son a sibling.
Also not cool: Telling people that maybe they aren’t “meant to be” parents, or that a baby was not “meant to be” after a miscarriage. Because we all know that children are only born to fit parents, so if you don’t have one it must be some essential defect of character.
Well, I am pretty sure that if you bring up your disapproval of fertility treatments, they won’t want to talk to you anymore, but since you seem to be trying to be polite, I don’t think that’s what you’re after.
I would try very hard to stick with variations on “I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through that.” I doubt very much that they would want to answer questions like “Why?”.
I have realized that I don’t seem to possess the desire to reproduce at all and for some reason have a hard time figuring out why people get so worked up about it.
Its actually bad medical advice as well. And anyone’s doctor who is telling them that hasn’t bothered to read the literature.
There are tons of stories about people spontaneously concieving when they gave up or adopted. Guess what - they conceive AT THE SAME RATE as people who are infertile and still trying. (No cite, this is according to my own reproductive endocronoligist - who was my OB when I delivered baby surprise - conceived during one of the most stressful points in my life).
The whole “spontaneous conception” is almost certainly a case of post hoc… reasoning, but there is emerging evidence that, for example, high levels of cortisol or epinephrine can affect the ability of womb to receive an ovum.
It was thought that modern techniques such as IVF had removed the impact of mental state on conception, but it now seems that the levels of stress hormones in the body, and the brain activity associated with high-stress states, can have a physiological effect on conception success rates.
The figures I’ve seen suggest 40% of infertile couples can find no biological reason for their failure to conceive… it’s therefore possible that for some of those 40% a change in their overall mental and physical state could assist with conception, alongside a raft of other interventions.
I can’t see how this is controversial?
My husband and I were infertile for 16 years, diagnosed and actively TTC for 9 if them. Eventually we gave up and followed this advice, and I can honestly say the puppies helped hugely with our despair. Having small fuzzy dependent creatures relying on you and there for general outpourings of love and affection helped fill a quiet house and made us feel like a family. I’d probably suggest it to an infertile couple, do I get away with it as I’ve been through it myself and have some experience?
And, as I got knocked up completely out of the blue a few years after we’d given up TTC, I’m now wondering where I’ll keep the dogs’ water bowl once our daughter begins crawling. Hope you guys get there too.
I’ve forgotten the stuff people used to say to me, or to suggest. Lots of it used to upset me but that was more to do with me and my own feelings about my infertility than with anything they actually said.
I’m sorry you have acquaintances who seem to have no sense of TMI. You’re well within your rights to be as annoyed with these people as you want, but to answer the OP as if that’s his case as well is wielding your own broad brush.
This is exactly part of the problem! No offense is intended! It’s unsolicited and potentially hurtful, but gee, they’re only trying to help. That’s why the OP started the thread, to point out that such comments ARE in fact offensive!
If I have a sore shoulder today, I’m not going to take offense to someone suggesting a hot bath. If I’ve had a sore shoulder for 6 years, have seen four different orthopedic specialists, a chiropractor, and a faith healer, and can’t get relief, then yes, I WILL internally roll my eyes if someone suggests that a nice hot bath should fix it right up, whether they know I’ve been hurting for a long time or not.
Multiply that by the pure emotional baggage that goes along with decisions about reproduction and you have to ASSUME that it’s going to be a sensitive issue and that even the most seemingly innocent suggestions might not be taken well. You may have to decide whether you want to be right, or want your infertile friend to keep talking to you.
Well, then it’s a good thing nobody has said that. All we’re saying is that it’s damn crass to bring it up if you haven’t been specifically asked.
The thing I hated most hearing (besides the wonderful examples already mentioned) was that I should be patient, and “it” would eventually happen.
It’s now been 8 years since the failed IVF, and a hysterectomy later I’m still wondering when “it” will happen. I’m obviously not having kids, and it’s nobody’s business why we haven’t adopted. Does that mean I’m a failure? I’m a bad person? My husband’s a bad person? We’d be bad parents?
Of course not. In my case, it just means that by the time I knew for sure I had endometriosis, it was so far advanced that there was literally no way for me to get pregnant save with IVF and ICSI. It also means that, with our insurance not covering it and IVF costing what it does, we only had one try. Not everyone who wants to have children actually will have children. It doesn’t mean they’re going to have a bad life; it just means their life may go in a different direction than they’d intended.
My sympathies to anyone who’s going through the infertility rollercoaster. It’s hell on wheels.
So sorry that people do/say stuff like that - and I realize that they do not mean it thoughtlessly, although that’s the way it seems.
A co-worker and friend used to tease other women co-workers if they were feeling sick or had an upset tummy by asking them if they were pregnant. One afternoon at lunch the topic of infertility and IVF came up, and I gently told her that sometimes she might be teasing someone who had been trying to get pregnant but hadn’t been able to. I could tell by the look on her face that she’d never considered that possibility before. I’d like to think that my words had some small effect - she still teases, but it’s mostly us older, meopausal women who get teased now.
I think it’s important to remember that the platitude about “Just relax and it will happen” is what many people say when they don’t know what else to say.
They aren’t trying to be jerks, even though it does sound insensitive. I think most people do understand that infertility is a painful experience, so it is easy to be at a loss for words when it comes up in a discussion. Not knowing what to say, people try saying something that seems “safe” (nobody thinks getting stressed out is going to help matters, so some vague assurance about “relaxing” seems safe - I think most people do realize it isn’t TRULY that simple, but what else can a non-doctor suggest?).
This kind of thing, on the other hand, is unforgivably stupid and thoughtless. If I had a “friend” like that, they sure wouldn’t be my friend for long. :mad:
Because the stats don’t back it up.
40% of infertile couples (including ourselves) have no biological reason they can’t conceive.
Of those, there are several choices.
some choose to adopt
some choose to remain childless
some continue down the medical intervention path
Of the first two - the spontaneous conception rate is something around 8% - the SAME as it is if you don’t stop trying but are infertile.
It isn’t that it isn’t controversial, its just that its wrong. It may be good advice to relax, its better than being stressed out - but it won’t help you conceive - despite what “everyone” believes.
Believe it or not, people don’t tell their friends and their coworkers about their infertility looking for advice or suggestions - they go to their doctor for that (or maybe their herbologist, accupucturist, or local priest).
All you need to do upon receiving this information is to say “I’m so sorry.” If so inclined and you know the person well enough “I’ll keep you in my prayers” is appreciated by all but the anti-religious. There is a second thing you need to do, which is file this information away under “things to be sensitive to” in your brain. Then you can avoid mentioning how easily you (or your friend) gets pregnant within hearing and avoiding discussions around pregnancy and babies where practical.
There were times going through infertility that I told people I’d rather not have told because of circumstances - I had doctor’s appointments, times of the month I couldn’t travel, surgery…that involved letting people know at work that I couldn’t be in until 10am that day, and with multiple doctor’s appointments per month, 'fessing up to infertility was preferable to letting the rumor mill grind out what was going on.
Just tell them, ‘I JUST GOT FINISHED RELAXING!’
Hubby and I tried for 2.5 years or so before we finally went with IUI. I didn’t go to my doctor at first because I figured we’d give it a year (stick tests, fertility charting etc). So I go, and we get scripts to get tested and then after I come back clear he puts me on Clomid for a couple months. We decide to see a fertility doctor then, who takes me off clomid (got cysts we find out). My doc then tells us - lose some weight, ‘oh! How kind of you!’ Off for more tests.
We try for 3 months to see if we can even do IUI since I had so many cysts from the clomid. Things clear up enough to go on clomid for a few days so we can finally go ahead with the IUI at the right time. (It’s wierd giving yourself a shot in the belly and thinking, 'tomorrow I might be pregnant.) Even after you’re laying there thinking, ‘are my hips high enough, did it work, am I pregnant with sextuplets?’ All of this on April fool’s day, and my hubby couldn’t find a door to get into the doctor’s office during the weekend… and then we found out we were pregnant!
In retrospect, I was overly stressed from work, trying to get pregnant and just trying to please everyone. I wasn’t sleeping as much as I should 4-5hrs a night while were in the middle of fertility procedures. Along with the lack of sleep and meds I feel like I lost myself somewhere, I don’t recognize the person I was. It was a rough time. I mean, having a baby is supposed to be easy? Tab A into Slot B stuff - why couldn’t a young otherwise healthy couple do it?
I was real touchy at first talking about our problems with anyone. It was difficult when family would ask, ‘so when are YOU going to have kids? So and so already have 3…’ I’d just go into the bathroom and cry, because we were trying…it even hurts now to think about it too.
We weren’t sure how we were going to add, or if we were even going to add to our family - if it happened it happened, we didn’t want to go down the same road again it was too difficult on so many levels. I’d avoid the topic with family, but internally it just felt like the right time, but again…if it happened it happened. The first time we really seriously tried we got pregnant. We kept it quiet for quite a few weeks, which was nice because we didn’t have to answer so many questions.
Of course the thing that bugged me with this 2nd one is that my MIL asked, after she found out ‘was getting this one as much trouble as the first one?’ :smack: I don’t even think we really told anyone in our family what we went through (unless she saw a slip of paper I had on the fridge when they were visiting once).
I wish you the best of luck, and as far as relaxing goes - just get some sleep after you boink like bunnies if that happens to be your route of choice.
Thanks for all the support so far. I am not looking for sympathy. Hell, I have gotten use to the fact that we may not conceive. We have explored adoption, and I used my re-enlistment bonus for most of the cost. The adoption did not go through, (no fault of ours, the mother decided she was going to give the baby to her brother as she had done for the previous four she gave birth to, hoping one day to get her life straight enough to raise them.)
The situation came up, for those that are still interested as a result of a leadership change in my company and station. I met my new leaders and they of course ask, "Are you married? How long? Any kids? To the last question, my response is usually, “Not yet.” That is when I usually get the helpful advice.
Look, if I have been married for 10 years and don’t have kids, generally, I know how a person conceives children, I didn’t just decide to do this yesterday, and I am not asking for advice or recognition. The only reason I say not yet instead of no is that I used to get stories about how good it is to be childless, or requests to babysit, so I could see how good it can be to be around children.
Annie X-Mas, you win for receiving the most insensitive comment. Good Og, that is wrong on so many levels.
SSG Schwartz
Yes, it may work for couples that have not tried any other method. It may work for those that have been under stress for the entire time they have been TTC, but if you do not know that, then my suggestion would be to not offer that up.
There are those out there that have been trying for years and have been to doctors and been told that there is a very remote chance of pregnancy, but relaxation will not cure PCOS, low motility, etc.
Thanks for your input, but those who haven’t had kids in a couple of years of trying, mostly, have been to a doctor.
SSG Schwartz
And if you were the medical professional of anyone here, your insight into their specific reproductive issues would no doubt point in either the “just relax” direction (“Great. Now I have to worry about not being sufficiently relaxed.”) or something other direction.
Since you are not the medical professional of anyone here, and since we are not supposed to give medical advice on this board unless we are medical professionals, maybe you should go find another thread to play in – y’know, one where you’re not pissing in everyone else’s attempt at a reproductive pool.
Or you could keep being that person everyone else is complaining about – the one who has the solution to everyone else’s medical problems. Without being asked.
It’s MPSIMS, not GQ! I’m not offering medical advice, just saying that many people will have heard from medical practioners or the media that stress can play a part in infertility, and as such when they offer as “advice” (solicited or otherwise) the suggestion “relax and it will happen” it’s not that they are being arseholes or offering actual medical advice, but rather that they are repeating a nugget of bland but harmless information on a complex topic, or are offering a normal social platitude which to most people is inoffensive but which to some overwrought childless couples can be interpreted as hurtful.
I’ve said before that I wouldn’t offer any advice unsolicited - that’s not what the OP asked, so I’ve used my own experience of conversations I’ve had with couples trying for a baby.
Do you honestly think that they were asking for advice, or simply telling you about their issues and looking for sympathy? Obviously, I don’t know the people in question, but for 98% of infertile couples it would have been the latter.