Things not to say to a childless couple...

What is going on in this thread? All Wallenstein did was state his opinion that sometimes “just relax” is, in fact, good advice, and a bunch of folks have somehow convoluted that into a belief that he goes around telling random childless couples to just relax or that he is somehow dispensing medical advice (to who, btw? His comment was about something the OP had been told, not direct advice to the OP). He has repeatedly stated that it’s only good general advice, and that of course stress won’t always be the sole cause of infertility. All he’s (seemingly) saying is that stress shouldn’t be automatically and completely dismissed as a possible cause/contributor. And now there’s iampunha actually suggesting that Wallenstein leave the thread? Because his reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking? Come on! This isn’t a thread about declawing cats, for og’s sake.

Back on topic, I’d say that the number 1 thing not to say to a childless couple is anything that implies they actually want children. Number 2 is “you never know, you might change your mind.” Oh, really? So you might change your mind about wanting/having kids? No? Didn’t think so.

When friends of mine were going through IVF treatments a few years ago it was heartbreaking. I told them that I sincerely wished I could somehow give them the children that I don’t want. It repeatedly frustrates me when I hear about people struggling with fertility issues, because here I am taking medication to ensure that I don’t get pregnant. (Of course I have no way to know if I’d easily get pregnant if I decided to try, but you know what I mean.) Life can be so damned unfair.

The reason “Just relax…” pushed so many buttons for me when I was TTC was for several reasons, but I’ll just cite the two main ones:
Reason 1 was that I felt it implied that I had been uptight about conceiving from Day One, and not just uptight but so uptight that it had affected my fertility.
Reason 2 was that we heard it over and over, from everyone. You smile and nod the first fifty times. After that, it starts to eat at you and you begin to read implications that the speaker may not have intended (see: Reason 1).

I felt a lot of anger about being told to relax because we were possibly the least obsessive attemptive-parents-to-be for a very, very long time. Even before we started I was aware that it’s not unusual for conception to take 12 months, so I didn’t consult a doctor in that time. We didn’t tell anyone we were trying for a baby, we didn’t make a big deal out of tracking cycles or trying to get our timing right, figuring that in the course of a normal, healthy relationship the timing should work out at least most months, if not all. After more than a year had elapsed, I went to the doctor but I was still fairly unconcerned about it all. I was pretty sure I had PCOS, and I was pretty sure it was mild. Having known women with severe PCOS who were able to conceive with medication, I figured it wouldn’t be long until we were in business.

After 18 months of doctors doing a lot of tests on me and nothing happening, we finally discovered that my husband was severely infertile, and that we wouldn’t have been able to conceive because of that, even if I didn’t have PCOS. We then had to wait a few months to test him again and see if that made a difference, and then wait a few more months to see a specialist, and then test again, and then wait again, and then more tests, and each time the news got a little worse… and that was the point where our anxiety levels were ramping up and up and up. That was also the point where our little secret hope to have a baby had become common knowledge with people and we were getting the “Just relax…” advice from everyone. We’d done relaxed. It hadn’t worked. Doctors were telling us there were reasons why it hadn’t worked and would never work, and they had nothing to do with our stress levels. We weren’t looking for advice from people, we were simply answering the question “How’s the TTC going?” when friends or family asked (it wasn’t something we went into detail about with strangers). There’s something so frustrating about giving people a run-down of the latest medical issues that have come to light and then being told “Just relax…”. Were they not listening? Do they seriously think that my PCOS and his count/mot/morph issues are all because we’re not relaxed enough? Do they honestly believe that we started out this stressed and maintained it for all those years?

I’ve known any number of people who’ve sought medical intervention because they haven’t conceived in the first couple of months (in a couple of cases, the first month) trying, or have started planning for IVF before they even clock over the first year, and some of them are good examples of people who just need to relax and give it some time. We weren’t like that. In fact, if we’d been less relaxed about it in the beginning, it wouldn’t have played out for so many years. We’d have pushed for more tests sooner and everything would have come to light in months rather than years. Our relaxed and laid back attitudes to TTC had cost us several years when a slightly more worried outlook might have sped things along.

As it turns out, it was probably a good thing. The stress of TTC lead to my husband flipping out, having a breakdown and undergoing a complete change of character. He ended our marriage and is now involved with a woman who doesn’t want children, and I discovered that my PCOS is a non-issue when I ironically ended up falling pregnant with my beautiful daughter while using contraceptives. Perhaps people were right… perhaps I relaxed about TTC and it happened. I can’t say that I felt terribly relaxed though, going through the whole separation/divorce/moving house/dividing our stuff/struggling to support myself/dating stage. I think what worked was being with a partner who wasn’t infertile. (Note: I do not recommend suggesting this as a fix to other couples!)

So while I appreciate from his elaboration that Wallenstein was commenting about a specific couple of his acquaintance who could benefit from chilling out a bit, the first comment he (or she… sorry if I’m mistaken) made

just hit a nerve that is still pretty raw, even though my membership card to the Infertility Set has been revoked.

Thank you for encapsulating why such an innocent comment can push so many buttons. I wouldn’t wish infertility on anyone, but there have been times when I have had very nasty thoughts about friends of mine after they have uttered similar platitudes. Of course, I never say what’s on my mind, as I know it is mostly irrational. Infertility, and the associated stress, really messes with your emotions, and this has been one of the worst aspects of the whole thing.

I admit I have found it very hard walking the line between sharing what is going on with my friends (so that I don’t feel like I am hiding what is going on in my life), and keeping quiet about the really difficult stuff, which invariably causes awkwardness and the aforementioned platitudes.

I am so sorry that you had such a long, painful experience, and I think your response to this thread definitely suggests that while you feel that your Infertility Card has been revoked, the emotions are still very much there.

And all I’m saying is that it’s unfair to let your “buttons” do the replying. If the subject is too painful for reasonable discussion, you’re the ones who iampunha should have asked to leave the thread.

(CLARIFICATION: I am not saying that I think you – or anyone – should actually leave this thread, I’m just saying that Wallenstein is getting punished for your bias. And I’m also not trying to speak for or inappropriately defend Wallenstein, it just drives me crazy to see this kind of thing and I’m in a “tell you so” mood. grin)

I personally have no bone to pick with Wallenstein. I think that we are all just focusing on them because they happened to repeat one of the single most common and upsetting comments that gets tossed our way.

Also note that I am not saying that I voice any of my feelings to the people around me who make comments like these. I have become very good at biting my tongue :wink:

We all have to strike a balance between what we share with the people around us and the things that we keep private. When it comes to infertility it is a difficult choice. Share with our nearest and dearest and risk the odd upsetting comment, or keep it all a big secret, and feel isolated and lonely. I don’t think any of us get it 100% right.

One of the things that hasn’t been said here, given that we have been talking about what *not *to say to childless couples, it that there are times when you take a risk and talk about your struggles, and happen to connect with someone who is going through the same thing, or knows someone who has. That is sometimes worth the risk.

“Why don’t you have children?”

“Well, actually, I did have a child, for a little while.”

“Oh no! What happened?”

“Stupid Amber alert.”

<beat>

<person backs away slowly>

We are just trying to be clear that It is a painful topic for many of us, in a way that most people who have not gone through it really can’t understand, and while we get that, and don’t expect total emphathy, there are certain well-meaning phrases which do not help to hear, and can cause distress.

So stress (severe stress) is sometimes a factor for a few; hey - caffeine, low-fat dairy and bike riding for men are as well. But people for some reason zone in on the stress as the key to this, and ignore a myriad of other reasons, both lifestyle and physiological.

All we are saying is that people like Wallenstein don’t see anything wrong with offering this advice, but long term TTCers take this very personally. If you care about them, accept our suggestion that this may upset them, and avoid it.

I don’t defend it at all, but it’s a way of saying all is not lost if you have been able to conceive in the past. I mentioned in another thread that the “helpful comments” kicks in and I have to hold myself back – a colleague mentioned that he and his wife haven’t been able to have kids and a few things went through my mind “The local hospital has an excellent fertility program” “Whose problem is it?” – but all I said was “oh” in a sympathetic tone. Of course I KNOW those comments are completely inappropriate but I want to help. :smack:

They always told me to wear boxer shorts.

When people are confronted with something they aren’t used to, they often say the first thing that pops into their heads. It’s unfortunate, but even a snappy comeback doesn’t usually help.

Our adoption agency did a lot to try to get us to work thru our grieving over infertility. I didn’t have all that much grieving to do, so maybe it was easier for me to respond with indifference when people asked intrusive questions.

Maybe part of it was there wasn’t a lot to share. The doctors never did find anything wrong with either of us, and we decided how far to go down the medical route ahead of time. So by the time we might have been tempted to tell people to MYOB, we already had my son. And adoption worked out as well as could be expected, or a bit better. (Did I mention that my son started college as a sophomore because of his advanced credits? Did I mention that my daughter got her academic letter last night for having straight A’s again?)

Regards,
Shodan

If the topic was “Things you should say to a childless couple that may help, whether they want to hear it or not”, I might agree with you, but the topic is “Things not to say to a childless couple…”.

Childless couples said “Do not say “Just Relax” to us”.
Wallenstein said “Just relax isn’t such bad advice”.
We repeated, with various shades of kneejerk, “Don’t say it to childless couples”.
Wallenstein defended saying it because it could be true.
We explained why it’s, at best, unneccesary advice and at worst something that will cause distress.
Wallenstein eventually explained that it’s good advice in the particular case of his friends. That doesn’t change the fact that the thread is “Things Not To Say To A Childless Couple” and it’s something childless couples are saying they don’t want to hear. If the thread was “Things To Say To Wallenstein’s Childless Friends Who Are Contributing To Their Own Infertilty By Being Too Stressed Out”, then we’d be having a different conversation.

I don’t think anyone needs to leave the thread. It’s a good place for the childless to let off a little steam, and may give outsiders a little insight. Certain parties just need to understand that certain other parties may lose their legendary good sense of humour when this particular issue comes up :smiley: :wink:

If a thread is started to bemoan the insensitivity of action A, and poster A comes in to say “Actually, there’s a benefit to action A,” …

Apparently even unwanted – specifically unwanted – discussion is a healthy thing here. Good to know. I’ll be sure to keep that in mind for future discussions where “Things I don’t want to hear” turns into “Hear this thing you don’t want to hear.”

So are you saying we should all just relax? :smiley:

Thanks all for allowing me a sounding board and a chance to understand why some feel that they can solve infertility with a placebo.

SSG Schwartz