Tricky and sad question: which family to choose?

So your wife’s only offense is trying to stand up for herself after 12 years of being attacked by your mother. With a husband who has only roused himself to defend her twice, I wonder why she’s insecure.

Your mother is happy with the status quo because she has been able to insult your wife for 12 years.

This is fairer than you deserve. Your wife is under no obligation to subject her or her child to a woman who has been cruel to her for over a decade. You’re lucky she hasn’t left you, because I can’t imagine a marriage surviving without both spouses knowing that the other has their back 100%. And in all honesty it sounds pretty unhealthy to have your mother affect your adult relationships to such a degree.

Practice this sentence for the next time your mother starts with the barbs: “X is my wife. I love you, but if you continue to insult her, I will leave.” And then if your mum doesn’t shut up, leave. You describe yourself as a pacifist and non-confrontational, so you don’t need to make a big drama of it. Leave quietly and courteously if you want, but make it clear that you will not listen to her badmouth your wife.

Man up and defend your wife.

Ugh. My mother lived with a mother in law like that (and a husband who didn’t stand up for her) for forty years. I think she goes and dances on my grandmother’s grave (and if she’d send me an invitation, I’d go with her)

If you suspect your mother is right, you should have never had your daughter. You did, that’s the point of no return, you’ve made a lifelong commitment to your wife - if not as your wife as the mother of your child. Even if you divorced your wife, your child shouldn’t be exposed to that sort of talk about her mother. So at this point, you don’t have a choice but to believe that the mother of your child is not a bitch…which makes your mother one.

In my book, that’s softballing it. Here’s how I handled it with my mom the first time (and yes, I rehearsed this before I said it - I do recommend that, since family can find ways of getting one off-topic):

"Mom, I’ve been with my wife for 7 years, and we’ve had two kids together. And here I find you’ve been doing nothing but criticize her behind our backs, yet you want to be a part of my childrens’ lives.

If you can’t respect that maybe I know better than you what and who I want in life, you will never see your grandchildren again."

Unfortunately, I fear with this last break we’ve reached that point - she just doesn’t get the point that she lost the right to choose anything for me when I left her at 14 years old (long story). But I refuse to let our family dynamic become a cliche’ - the whole “mother-in-law from hell” thing is for the movies, not for real life. My chosen life partner doesn’t need that shit, and neither do I.
Endemic, do yourself and your family a favor - stand up early and furiously for your wife every time, not just when you feel your family has stepped over the line. And even if you think to yourself “well, they have a point, she does do X, Y or Z”, still stand up for her, again, early and furiously - they have no right, plain and simple. What your mom is doing is eroding your confidence in your wife by reminding you of the faults she perceives, and recognizing none of your wife’s strengths. And it sounds to me like you married a very strong woman, so remember that.

And finally, remember, this isn’t just for your wife, it’s for you too - if your family can’t respect the life you choose to lead as an independent adult, then they clearly don’t respect you. Even if you did choose your family, how could you live knowing these people have no respect for you? If you choose your wife, I can guarantee that at least one person will have immense respect for you the rest of your lives together.

Here’s one final thought from me. Why don’t you print this thread out, and show it to both your wife and mother? Tell them that you haven’t disclosed any names, that no one can possibly know who you’re talking about, but that you needed to get feedback on how to deal with this problem, and you went to a place you trusted would provide some well-thought-out, but frank feedback (trolls aside - maybe cut Angry’s comments out).

Let each know you’ve shown it to the other, and let them mull over it for a while. I can’t predict how your wife will react, but your mother will most likely either a) feel sufficiently chastised by public opinion, and hopefully understand that she needs to keep her bullshit to herself, or b) will break the whole thing off for you, sparing you the trouble.

I don’t understand. Aren’t you there when your mom directs these comments to your wife? Or are there exchanges going on in your absence that your wife relays to you later? It sounds like you’re relying on your wife to tell you when your mom is being out of line. Why? Are her digs too subtle to you? (Not being a snarky; I’m sincerely not understanding this.) If you can’t decide for yourself whether your wife’s feelings are justified, regardless of what your brothers and mom are claiming, then something is wrong. Either your wife isn’t communicating effectively, you don’t trust her ability to assess situations rationally, or you’re letting your loyalties to your mother get in the way of an honest appraisal of what is really going on.

I know the horse is out the barn on this one, but being assertive with bigoted family members when they are being hurtful to your SO is mandatory if you’re trying to have a happy interracial relationship. If you can’t do that, then yes, estrangement needs to be pursued. It doesn’t seem like you have stood up to your mother very well, and unfortunately, the acrimony between them has gone unchallenged for so long that it sounds like the trust between you and your wife has eroded significantly. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to constantly have to explain to a SO why his mother’s behavior is bothersome, only to find that he isn’t really sensitive or responsive to my feelings because he’d rather play the pacifist.

Has there been a recent incident in particular that has spawned this ultimatum business? From your wife’s vantage point, it may be too late to play “one more strike and you’re out” if this has gone on for years and years. But depending on how bad your mom is, she may be deserving of one more try before the nuclear option is used. I would at least try to have a face-to-face with mom about the whole thing (be a man about this and talk, for jeebus’ sake). If she can’t handle that without acting a fool, then consider that the last straw and say peace out.

I lived with a mother-in-law like that for years. The first time she met me she ignored me and asked my boyfriend all about his ex-girlfriends, many of whom he hadn’t seen in years. She would criticise my housekeeping, my cooking, and my clothes. Whenever I’d talk she’d act like the cat spoke, either ignore me or laugh condescendingly.

I tried for a long time to get him to see how his mother was treating me, and all he would say was that I was overreacting, or that his mother “told [him] last week that she really wished * was nicer to her.” Yeah, suddenly it was ME not being nice to HER.

Right before our divorce hearing he told me that his mother had called me a bitch and he had said “I know we’re having problems but you aren’t supposed to call her that.”

I said, “That was nice of you. Too bad it’s too late now.”

In other words, believe your wife. She’s stayed with you through this, she obviously loves you to bits, and she’s worth you defending her to anyone she may have a problem with.

Now you have a daughter, you do need to man up and deal with this situation, and back your wife. If you don’t, imagine how in just a few years your daughter will be exposed to the bad things your mother is saying about your wife. Either she’s going to take these on board herself (if that’s true about my mother, it’s true about me too!), or it will drive a wedge between your wife and daughter. I can’t imagine you want either of those to happen.

I feel really bad saying this, given everyone elses opinions, but unless YOU have always had a difficult relationship with your mother, then you shouldn’t cut off that relationship.

Your wife is who you have chosen to be with and now you have a child that should make that tie even stronger. Your mother should not disrespect that relationship but neither should your wife disrespect your relationship with your mother.

Realistically many marriages fail, nobody enters mariage thinking it will fail but many do.

Most mothers will be around until they are…not.

Your mother needs to be be told that it is not ok to disrespect your spouse but if they can never get along you need to keep a relationship with your mother that is seperate to your wife.
Most people in this thread seem to feel that the one you choose will see you through everything but those “I LOVE YOU” relationships can end for many reasons. Most mothers only want the best for you and will always love you. Mothers can be bigots or ignorant or have completely diffrent opinions in everything to you BUT they love you.

All those people telling you to choose your child over her forget that she chose her child over your wife.

Don’t cut her off, just make it clear that YOU are the only one of your family she will see if she keeps being so hostile to your wife.

Endemic: I wish your Mom would be inspired by mine.
my Mom does not mind that I will never give her grandkids. She just wants me to lead a happy life, whatever I choose to do with it. She accepted both my first and second husbands exactly as they are. hugs

I think that most of us agree with you.

We’re not saying “cut off the relationship with the mother”, we’re suggesting he creates healthy boundaries in his relationship with his mother.

No, she chose herself over her child. Choosing your child would be saying “you know, I wanted something different for you, but I accept that you have made a different choice” and accepting his wife - or at the very least, keeping her mouth shut. She’s decided its more important to rag on his wife than respect her son’s choice.

The useful feedback continues. Thanks everyone. I even learned a new term – ‘man up’. Too bad I had to learn it in this context …:rolleyes:

Just to answer a few of the points that have come up.

The previous two periods of non-communication were between me and my mother (not my wife). I wouldn’t say that I stood up to my mother only twice. Before both of those breakoffs we had lots of agonizing back and forth arguments, during which I tried again and again to make my points, and had most of them thrown back in my face. Funny, although my mother swears how much she loves me, how important I am to her, how I will always be her little boy, etc, she has never once been able to make a single concession to me on any of my requests.

“Loss of son” refers to me. It’s a long story, but my parents have been divorced since I was a young child and I was the oldest and ended up being her emotional support from about the age of 10. When I became interested in global issues and other cultures and left the US for work, she considered it as losing her son.

I guess reestablishing contact unilaterally, without demanding any concessions, was spineless. But my mom has had a pretty miserable life, and despite all the above, I worry about her and I guess this was one motivation for wanting a whole family. For the record, my wife was Ok with reestablishing contact (she even encouraged me at times), and we both hoped that given another chance, my mother would demonstrate the concessions that she was not able to agree to formally.

Regarding me doubting my judgment, let me give one example. I was raised a Christian, and my wife, let’s say, is Buddhist. Neither of us is heavily into our religions, but like them for what they are and would prefer to expose our daughter to both and to let our her choose between them when she is old enough. A few months ago I mentioned to my mother that my wife and I were considering the possibility of baptizing our daughter but still raising her in both religions, and that I was considering speaking to a priest and see what was possible. My mother was pretty fair and informative throughout the whole thing, but in the end I myself concluded (after some research) that the Catholic church would not permit this, so I let it drop. Then the week after the birth of our daughter my mom asked both of us whether she could buy her a gold cross. After the call my wife got very upset that my mom was trying to brainwash our child, and I got upset too. I was all set to make this one of my points to my mother when I realized that I myself had mentioned our interest in exposure to both religions, and in fact never told my mom that we had decided against baptism. But based on my wife’s reaction, I had almost confronted my mother over this bit of insensitivity. Instead I discussed it with my wife and we agreed to drop this point. But my concern is that I almost acted on my wife’s overreaction, when in fact my mom didn’t really do much wrong. This is an example of how I fear my judgment sometimes. The lesson here, I will admit, is not to doubt my wife, but to try to limit my arguments with my mother to behaviors which are clearly offensive, with little margin for misunderstanding.

The point about my mom trying to turn our daughter against my wife when she is a bit older is a very valid one, and I need to think about it seriously. That she has turned my brothers against me is an example that she is capable of it. I should also mention that when I was going to leave the US for the job I mentioned above, my mother actually hid my passport from me. She is capable of that sort of thing.

Just a nitpick, maybe, but your wife did not overreact. She was operating on the information that she had at the time - from you. I hope you apologized to your wife and promised to keep her in the loop from now on.

Carry on.

Turning your own child against someone is an awful lot harder than turning their own child against them. Your daughter is always going to hold your wife in higher esteem than your mother - unless your wife is a really bad mother - so don’t worry about that.

Maybe, but it’ll still cause the kid pain and conflict.

Have you considered talking to a professional counselor? What you are describing here is NOT an example of a healthy parent-child relationship. That’s not your fault, and I’m not saying you’re crazy or anything like that, but a counselor might be able to help you improve your relationship with your mother.

You might want to find one who is experienced in interfaith family issues, or a group of interfaith families that you can meet with and discuss issues. There are organizations and groups that deal with interfaith family issues. Most of them deal with issues between Christians and Jews, but you might be able to find one that has experience with Christians and Buddhists. Some of the issues are going to be the same. All interfaith couples who have children deal with this issue of how to raise the kids, in one way or another. This is a classic Big Issue for an interfaith family, and it’s common for conflicts to crop up when the first child is born.

I went through this when I announced my engagement. My father said he would disown me, my mother went along, and my wimp of a brother bought into their bullshit.

I got married. I invited all of them to the wedding. We did not have the traditional “both sets of parents light candles that will later be used to combine to one candle” part of the ceremony. I placed large friends in the rows around my father, with permission to beat the living shit out of dad if he acted up in the slightest way.

I did not see my parents again for several years after the wedding, and I would have superficial phone calls only with them every month or so. I put my foot down, backed my wife, and over time they backed down. Even today, after over 20 years, my wife and I both get a little stressed when my parents are coming to visit.

So I have been there. I gave up contact with most of my family just to get married. I did it consciously, and it sucked. It hurt. I cried more than once (and I am redneck dude). I got into fights with my now-wife over whether or not I was being strong enough. I had to tell the people who raised me to back off and go to hell. I hung up on my only brother. I did not talk to my grandparents for many years (no fault of theirs, I simply snipped the entire line).

With that background, here is my anonymous message board advice based on minimal posted information:

  1. Per other posters - grow a set. Mom says something racist, tell her to cut that shit out as she is talking about your wife AND your daughter.
  2. Tell mom you don’t want to put your daughter through the hell that your wife has gone through. You have an excuse to step up a bit - you have a child to protect.
  3. Tell your brothers that you are done looking the other way as your wife and daughter are attacked and insulted, and that you are not going to tolerate your family being treated this way.

Play this as a protective **FATHER **and husband. It is hard for someone to attack a father for protecting his daughter. This is your chance to change your ways a bit, in a situation that is quite defensible.

Or a healthy husband / wife relationship. Dude you need help all around. If not for yourself, but for your daughter, so she doesn’t have to carry the baggage from two generations forward.

I have no advice for you. I was however one of the children in a similar situation. My mother is catholic and Portuguese (I know, oxymoron) and my father was born and raised in coastal Alabama. My paternal grandmother is impoverished gentry (following the War of Northern Aggression, also known as the Recent Unpleasantness) and a member of both the DAR and the UDC. She was thus not thrilled about my father’s whelping of half breed brats.

It must also be said that my immigrant maternal grandmother held me in her arms (I was the only one who inherited my father’s fish belly white complexion, light eyes, and light hair) and said “See what happens when you marry anglos? You have ghost babies”. The name stuck and my cousins still occasionally refer to me as ghost baby. They were not thrilled that my mother married out, and that my father was Protestant hardly rated a blip on the meter compared to the enormity of his other-ness.

I think when I was young parents did much less protecting of children in this way than they do now – at least, neither of my parents considered barring us from our family because there might be unpleasantness. Or possibly the boundaries are different than they were – my parents considered our relationship with our extended family to be largely our look out and that of the adults involved. Neither of them was at all worried that my respective grandparents could manage to turn us against our own parents – and in truth I also think that all things being equal, this is unlikely in the extreme. We got a quite realistic view of our extended family as people, and our contact was not limited to only worthy people.

It has to do with what you want your kids to learn, really.

If your example is at all illustrative I think some counseling would be good, because I fail to understand how anyone could get from “asking if one might make a gift of a gold cross to an infant” to “brainwash attempt”. I have two gold anchor pendants which my mother in law bought for my kids as infants and I don’t think she was trying to turn them into Barnacle Bill the Sailor. I think she wanted to buy them something nice that she found to be personally significant.

But my parents’ approach is postulated on keeping healthy boundaries and demonstrating doing that to said children. And I think your posting indicates that you at a minimum are not confident that you have them nor that you can maintain them. So you have to get that, irrespective of anything else, if only because your kid will need them. What you don’t teach your kid, the world will be happy to teach her, only it won’t be nearly as nice about it. And probably the message won’t be exactly the same as you would like.

I take it back: I have this advice for you. Consider this: What would you tell yoru daughter to do, all grown up and married, were she in your situation? What would you tell her in your wife’s situation? What would you tell her in your mother’s situation? Figure out all three of those things and then triangulate from there.

The lesson you need to learn is to be a better communicator to both your wife and your mother. You know that there is the potential for misunderstandings, but it seems like you’d rather look the other way than risk conflict, by calmly stating to your mother the way things will be. It does sound like you’re actually scared of your mother and will do anything for a quiet life. That’s clearly not going to happen, so you need to switch on and focus on better managing these two important women in your life.