Untruthful Accusations

His4Ever, my friend, do not mistake what’s being said. There are a lot of non-Christians here who think that being preached at about their immorality on the basis of what you believe to be God’s Word but they do not, is offensive. There are more than a few who thought your quoting Scripture to explain your views about homosexuality while apparently refusing to accept the same standard of condemnation in Scripture as regards your own marital life made you seem hypocritical.

There are a lot of us, Christian and not, and I think I include CJ, Guin, gobear, Lib, lel, Scotti and quite a few others, including of course myself, that would like you to start talking more about God’s love and in particular showing it towards others in what you post, and a bit less about His judgment over sinful man (which includes all of us, by your take and mine).

I’m aware that you do see warning people of what God’s Word says about their sins as caring. But what I’m talking about is a post, for example, that overtly recognizes that, say, gobear or andygirl is telling the truth in saying that they had no choice on whether to be gay or not – it was something they found out about themselves, not something they decided to become – and while they do have choices about whether or not to have sex with the people they’re attracted to, with or without marriage vows, it should not be too hard for you to empathize with their unwillingness to remain celibate for the rest of their life. Then pick up on the repeated story that they got condemned for being something they had not chosen to be by unthinking, uncaring people who claimed to be Christians and to speak for Christianity. Now, what is the Good News to them? What would Jesus say to them? Would He simply quote Leviticus and wander off? Or would He “come in and sup with them” and try to heal their emotional wounds, as He has done with yours and mine? And if we’re supposed, above all, to emulate Him and do what He commanded, most empatically to “love our neighbors,” then that, not “standing for the truth of the Bible” by sounding like one of the Pharisees whom Jesus condemned for judging people for breaking the Law while making excuses for oneself, is what you and I are supposed to do.

I’ve been trying my best to do just that. So have a few others. Won’t you join us? You have a lot of love to offer here, and I’ll bet there are more than a few battered wives who could use the “been there” help that you could give – and the spiritual lift of hearing from someone who’s been through all that and then found Him.

And pray for Kirk. You don’t know a fraction of the story, but he’s been badly hurt by people who, like you, meant well and ended up condemning him – he was not, when I met him, given to the sort of tirades you’ve endured. He needs God’s healing love, and I guarantee that he’s making it difficult for anyone to get through to him.

I am sorry. It was not my intent to do anything other than make a joke. My apologies.

If it makes a difference, I pray for leniency for Hastur.

Yes, I want the record corrected. In particular, I would like to see his quote edited to reflect what I actually said. But I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that he meant no harm. And I would wager that he won’t ever do it again.

IIRC, a very similar situation occured in this here Pit not a month or so ago, and it was dealt with swiftly and fairly justly, IMHO.

His4ever, a suggestion for you: why not lurk for a few weeks, a month, whatever? And when you see something you disagree with, instead of posting (and this is something most of us could probably do as well) about it, write down not why you disagree with it, but how Christ would handle that disagreement. Would He start throwing verses from a book at that person, or would He figure out a way to reach that individual person and attempt to show said person their error?

Your reaction will never be perfect. It really can’t be, because as much as any of us tries (taking liberties here with the pronoun, as I don’t claim now to be Christian:)) to be, there’s going to be something that trips is up. But if you can stay away from the “Oh, someone did something wrong! I better come in with the cavalry and blow them to pieces!” approach and lean more toward the “I can help that person by being what they need” approach, I think you’ll find people a lot more accepting of your presence here. And given how many people have asked that you stay…:slight_smile:

And the sooner you can learn to forgive the injustices you believe have been done unto you, the sooner you can just say “Okay, that happened, and I’m not dead nor permanently injured, my house didn’t burn down, my family is still alive”, then you will have forgiven whatever was done to you and, I think, at least, you’ll begin to enjoy your time here much more deeply.

And remember God’s message to the people His son hung out with (sinners, the lot of them):

Love. Not “I’m going to throw Bible verses at you and act like that’s an answer”.

Love.

Head to http://www.mccportland.com/HSandBible.htm

Read how other Christian people interpret the words you use to condemn. See that there are alternatives even if you do not believe them personally. This is not a black and white world but it sure looks monochrome where you reside. You have my pity, I would rather offer you my respect.

Make room in your world and mind for opposing opinions not necessarily being wrong and I will cease wishing you gone whatever you believe personally. Until then, feel free to fuck off.

How is voting Republican sinful?

I’ve looked at the site you posted, Thylacine. I don’t agree with what it says and you knew I wouldn’t. Nuff said.

To all: Thanks for the advice.

I knew you wouldn’t agree with it His4ever, that was not why I asked you to read it. I asked you to look to see that those same words you think mean one thing can just as easily be read to mean something else.

What is in your heart when you read the Bible will effect what you find there. If your heart holds hate you will find hate just as racists used the story of Ham to rationalise slavery and apartheid, you as a homophobe find your position propped up by the Bible yet others who approach the same words with love in their hearts can find something altogether different.

You read with hate and you find hate. It doesn’t need to be that way. I pity you the blackness of your heart and your closed mind.

The question, dear H4E, isn’t whether you agree with it.

It’s whether god agrees with it.

And you don’t have any better claim to knowing that particular truth than anybody else.

Admit that. Admit that you might be wrong. That you do not know the mind of God. That your ideas about the Bible may, in fact, be incorrect. Come on, I dare you. Tell us that you haven’t got all the answers; that you’re just making guesses, like everybody else, and hoping that your guesses turn out right.

This is not a new thing for her. I recall reading the same shit on lekatt’s NDE board from her during my little investigation of that site. At least three times, she threatened to leave that board- but I think the only response she got was something along the lines of “Don’t let the mouse pad hit you in the ass on the way out.”

I don’t know if any of that was related to her being banned there, but I would not be surprised- holding yourself hostage on the internet is just pathetic.

[channeling stupidity] I’ll leave! I’m serious I really will shut up and go away!! Don’t make me whine!! I really will leave after a while!! [/channeling stupidity]

**
I agree, but to say that some things you do i think are wrong, but I still love you is not.

You only have to pick a side on something that involves you.

quote:
I’d like to join the list of people asking H4E to stay.

I hope a good cut man was on His4ever Christmas shopping list. She is going to need it.

I try not to judge other people, I only know that I would consider it sinful if I were to vote republican. How anyone else votes is between them and God.

Sing it again sister!

this IS the pit, and therefore my next comment is highly inappropriate.

thank you Thylacine for the MCC link. it was very informative, and unlike His4ever, i do agree with its sentiments.

His4ever,
we all know what you believe, we have all heard why you think you believe it.
you’ve told us til you are blue in the face.

and yet…
you have changed no-one’s opinions in the direction you would hope to.
that, if nothing else, should tell you that you need to re-think your approach.
i’d like you to stay, in the hope that we can change YOU with the power of our love.

this sister in christ sends you only love.

I have a sig suggestion for His4Ever.


A. If you disagree what I just posted, you’re wrong, I’m right, God said it, I believe, that settles it.
B. You will burn in hell forever if you don’t change your mind, and give your life to Jesus exactly like THIS.
C. If you still don’t believe God said it or interpret it exactly the way my church told me to, goto A.


That would save everyone a lot of time since that’s all most of her follow up posts amount to anyway.

FTR I don’t give a shit if she stays or goes, but I do think less of her every time she brings it up when things get a bit hot.

And if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

sigh

It’s like a big brick wall. Everytime I think she’s showing signs of humility, I’m wrong.

You know what would be nice? If H4e took some of the suggestions we’ve been offering her (obviously, other than the “go fuck yourself” ones). Even as vehemently as I disagree with her on just about everything, I’d rather see her happy and contributing to this board instead of just saying “I’m leaving, I’m a martyr, you’re all wrong and you’ll never change my mind” every time she starts a thread.

But she doesn’t. She’s so SURE of herself.

I think she’d be better off with Ladies Against Feminism, or Patriach.org (purposely misspelled-they have this nasty thing that logs whenever someone links to their site), or whoever.

I mean, I want to know, what does she EXPECT? She keeps banging us over the head with her beliefs, and when we strike back, she whines and moans that we’re persecuting her.

What did she expect? “Oh, thank you so much for telling me I’m going to Hell!”

I suspect it was more like “Oh golly gosh, I didn’t know, now that I know, I’ll change my behavior. Thank you, oh thank you for showing me THE WAY”.