Goes with what I was saying above: you need to give 100% dedication yet expect 0% results. So you have to love the act itself, the journey, if you will.
Too bad I don’t. As a depressive, I don’t see any growth or anything positive in all that. I’ve never had whatever happy trait people have that allows them to chalk it up to experience, pat themselves on the back and try, try again. So I remain unwillingly single, if only because the price is too high to be anything else.
Well, maybe 2% results. 
People play the lottery for worse odds, I guess. 
What has always saddened me is that I was taught the old romantic nonsense. You’ll “find” someone; someone will “find” you. It’s “meant to be.”
Sorry, but it’s not meant to be. There isn’t a lid for every pot. There’s no cozy corner waiting for you anywhere. Not unless you keep walking, straight into the cold wind of being alone, letting the rain slap you in the face, again and again.
Naw, you build your own cozy corner out of cardboard boxes and newspapers and zealously guard it against any would-be intruders.
I used to be unwillingly single, though I’m no longer sure about the ‘unwilling’ part.
I’m 49, big and fat, and not agressive. I gave up asking women out long ago because I got tired of rejection – I’m naturally very shy, and just the asking part was very difficult for me.
So where are all these liberated women who will take charge and ask out men they find interesting? I prefer not to dwell on figuring out if they are somewhere else, or I’m just not interesting – to any woman.
Oh, and BTW, is it just me or do others share the following? If you’re going to reject me, just say ‘no’ politely. I do not want to hear about how this is your problem and not mine, how I’m perfectly ok, and then hear the entire history of your bad relationships that have inevitably led to you saying no to a date with me.
AND, I don’t want to hear, “Ask me out later, maybe in a few months, when I’m in a different ‘place’.” Hey, when you’re in a different ‘place’, YOU ask ME out. Rejection once is bad enough, I certainly don’t need it twice from the same person. I believe that no means no – I am not going to ask again.
Confidence is definately not something you can get overnight. There is a luck factor to it. Certain events and conditions in your life contribute to it. But you can definately help yourself by having a positive attitude. Don’t think you can do it, know you can do it. Have a slight arrogance to your attitude if you must. If you lose your confidence, it can be tough to get out of that rut, but once you do, ride with it.
Just because it’s fresh in my mind…
I got from step A into step B several times tonight, but failed to move on to step C. (Step C being building attraction.) I opened five sets with relative ease, simply by walking up and saying who I was. This was a decent approach, as these were all coworkers whom I’ve never met. All done with confidence, and all met with smiles and cheer. But with only one exception (a mother daughter set) I was never able to lead the conversations beyond “So what department do you work in?” Very lame.
But at least I opened, and every set contained some stunningly beautiful women, and I was not fazed by their beauty one little bit.
When it came to being a brilliant conversationalist, I turned into a total dumbass. I guess it’s easy to see what I need work on. 
There is an alternative: Get introduced to someone by a mutual acquaintaince.
This is how I met my wife.
Ed
I have no idea how you could possibly read what I wrote and interpret it to mean that I didn’t already know the above. Seriously. I write “I’m not interested in seeing romance as a game of conquest” and you read “I have no clue about basic social skills”. I’m dumbfounded.
It’s not that I might get hurt. I did an experiment this summer and managed to prove to myself that it’s not fear of rejection. Totally honestly. I don’t have a problem with that. But going in with a cross-hair and trying to “close” just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It misses the entire point. And without the point, there’s not much point, is there?
Not to answer for Dangerosa, but it’s not a matter of becoming attracted to someone you once found unattractive. But there are degrees of attractivness, and some people feel that every category needs to be met in order for a relationship to be within the realm of possibility. I have very few “deal breaker” qualifications in people. I embrace many of the differences between me and others because I find it interesting; not off-putting. I don’t want someone to be too much like me. I find differences…even extreme differences…to be quite attractive.
True enough. It’s really a question of how much each ticket costs.
That’s true, but at the same time, it’s not meant not to be. If you see what I mean.
No, there are thousands of lids for every pot. (Well, not every pot. But 99% of them.)
They were not. They were addressed to the general audience. And they were somewhat addressed to me, as they are all either current or past issues for me. Yes, my mom used to cut my hair. How lame is that? I’m lucky that I’ve now found someone who is quite good at it.
But I’ll address some of your answers.
Nonsense. Sure, you need a bit of positive feedback to keep it going, but how are you to know if the other person has anything interesting to say if you can’t initiate the conversation in the first place?
My default state is one of quiet, in which I answer such brilliant openers as “Hi”, “Thank you”, or “Whatup?” with “Buh” or “Muh” or just a half smile. I’m normally way too inside of my own head.
There’s a local eatery where the ritual is to walk up to the cashier and be asked “May I help you?” The polite response is to say “Cheeseburger, fries, and a soft drink”, and to say it without ever looking at the cashier, who is usually some incredibly beautiful young lady.
How much better would it be to smile, look her in the eye, and say “Hi, I’d like a… Hey, how ARE you today? You having a good day?” Just totally fuck with her mind, and give her something a little unexpected. Enjoy her smile, and be glad that you made her minimum wage bore of a life just a little brighter, even if only for a few seconds. You get something out of it, and she gets something out of it.
Will she have anything profound and interesting to say? Do I even care? But I have to go in with the mindset that I’m going in prepared to say something other than the usual bore.
Great. So do the necessary work.
I spent a couple of hours last night at a party opening sets full of beautiful women, and came up with nothing. So what? I still had a good time, and I talked to some really beautiful women. Overall, it was a win.
Here’s the thing, though. Over the past few weeks, I just so happened, by pure blind luck, to sit next to two really cute women on public transportation. (These were two separate occasions.) Both times, I said something fairly lame and uninteresting, but amazing conversations ensued. I got email addresses from both of them. We’ve been conversing ever since. No dates have happened yet, but I’m pretty confident that that will happen with at least one of them.
Happy to.
Know yourself. Be happy with who you are. Maintain a high self-esteem.
Look people in the eye.
Smile.
Shoulders down, lean back a bit.
Don’t suck up or seek approval.
Own that no matter what you do, everything is going to work out for you. Think positively.
Be the center of your own universe.
And?
You’re really missing out, then. Everyone is interesting in their own way. Everyone has stories to tell. And have you ever noticed how people have far more interesting stories if they also have perky tits? Funny how that works.
But you’ll never hear those interesting stories if you don’t say hello.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. You have girlfriends but you don’t want commitment? Awesome. That’s where I am, too.
Buh? How can you know her ideas unless you get her to talk about them?
You a telepath or something?
Okay, I hear you - so it’s not the threat of hurt, it’s the feeling like you are collecting notches on your belt, not genuinely meeting people. Makes sense. Therefore, what type of mindset can you imagine having that accepts the responsibility for taking action and moving things forward that does NOT feel like that? How about if you set the goal of getting involved in X new social situations or part of 1 new social set, and ensure that you are getting together as a group Z times a month? Notice, it isn’t about “closing” it is about ensuring you find yourself in settings with people you want to be hanging out with.
Already doing that. Yesterday and New Year’s Eve I spent at parties filled with new people, and I’m going to another Saturday. Am I actively looking when I go to these things? No, but it is in the back of my mind, and that’s where I think it should be.
Then maybe I don’t get what the heck you are talking about. It doesn’t have to be a “game of conquest” but meeting someone does require some degree of you being proactive. I don’t think true love happens in the movies where you spy someone accross the room and suddenly the crowd parts for you.
And “closing” doesn’t have to be something shady. If you are talking with someone and you like them, it is simply making an effort to set up something so you can see them again in the future.
BEing confident is just doing things without having to psych yourself up or without a lot of second guessing and hesitation. You generally build confidence by trying and failing a bunch of times until you eventually succeed.
Which I am quite willing - eager in fact - to do. But I’m not going to go into a place like a damn pussyhunter thinking “I’m going to come out of here with a phone number”. I’m not going to think of it as “closing”, like it were a business deal or my prey or something.
Much like the term “close”, which somebody didn’t get (and I didn’t either, because it makes the whole thing sound like a business transaction), I’m not at all understanding “opening sets”, which I’ve now read a few times. I’ve opened a few sets in my life, usually with a line like, “How’s everybody doin’ tonight? Are you ready to rock?!” and then launching into the first song on the list.
Durned mutatin’ terminology …
Pretty much the same thing but without the song.
I think you are exactly right. The people I know IRL and on the Dope who are unsuccessful in dating seem to be crippled by a fear of rejection. Dating means that yes, you will be rejected. If you feel like the stakes are extremely high, and your ego and personal happiness ride on if someone gives you her number/goes out with you/likes you back, then yeah, dating is going to be a nightmarish exercise in painful defeat and not worth the trouble. If you think, eh, I barely know this girl, if she rejects me, ain’t no thing, then you’re going to bounce back faster and seem more confident.
I think that if you have some strikes against you, the less risk-averse you can afford to be. Take chances and try very hard to shake off the pain of rejection. People can smell fear and desperation and it’s not sexy. It’s kind of perverse, but it seems that people are more attracted to you at the start of dating when you could take them or leave them than when you are neurotically overconcerned with the outcome.
Also, letting the whole process make you negative and bitter also means take a break from it. Dating should be fun, meeting new people, all that. If you approach it like a distasteful exercise in horror, it’s probably not going to go as well.
I get what you’re saying. Look, when I go to a social event, I go out of my way to circulate and talk to people. I’m not looking to hook up or anything because I have a girlfriend, but I’m just being social.
Guys who agressively go after girls often creep them out. I’m at a company happy hour, and a woman friend of mine drags me across the street to get some pizza. So we’re just chatting along and this dude I work with shows up and starts agressively hitting on her. Trying to get us to go to some stupid “secret” bar, offering to ride in a cab with her or walk her home. Basically just giving off a weird vibe (enough so that she felt waiting on the subway platform at 11:45pm was a better alternative). Lo and behold, I find out that many girls at work share this sketchy vibe and he’s basically a sexual harassment suit waiting to happen.
I first heard the term “opening sets” on VH1’s show The Pickup Artist. Basically, the show is about some self-proclaimed pickup artist names “Mystery” who goes around teaching guys how to score with women using his “Mystery Method”. Anyhow, apparently there’s this whole pickup artist community of web sites and books and stuff and they have their own vernacular:
Sets = Groups of people. A “one set” is one girl. A “two set” is two people. And so on. You “open” as set by going over and striking up a conversation.
Kino = Flirtatous touching.
IOI/IOD = Indicator of Interest/Disinterest. Touching your arm or chest is an IOI. Spraying you with pepper spray is an IOD.
Neg = Playfull teasing designed to attack her self esteem
The show was amusing, however, to me it seemed like the “pickup artists” were in actually a bunch of dorks who through study and practice, created a persona for picking up 23 year old “drunk bitches” in some Austin, TX bars. Actually, they do call there persona their “avatar”.
Shit. We used to go to bars sometimes just to see the worst pick up lines we could use to get rejected with. No pressure! My favorite “you might not be that into me, but right now I’m the only guy talking to you”.