What do I tell my son?

[Heckity]

Actually I’ve heard a lot of stories where, creepily, this does happen

That is creepy Freudian Slit. Ignorance fought on that level. I still believe that she overreacted - but I should have thought about that - it’s no different than an abuser’s apology I suppose. Something more to think about.

[Freudian_Slit]

No prob. Also…I just wanted to clarify:

@Heckity

I pointed out that a rapist is unlikely to text someone asking if they’ll “be okay”; and generally don’t give a crap whether someone is angry with them. More likely she had far too much to drink (she’s a wee bit o’ a thing); and the guy did to. He saw a pretty girl and an opportunity and he gave it a shot. He asked if she’d be okay because she fell down after all so had to be pretty loaded - and asked if she was angry because he knew his advances were unwelcome. All-in-all a pretty stand up response from the guy.

Wait, if he knew his advances were unwelcome, and that she was falling down drunk, why was he making advances? She said that she remembers screaming and pushing him off her. Okay, maybe he didn’t rape her, but it sounds like he did try something. I can see why your son’s g/f might feel torn. Like, she may not have enough evidence that an assault or rape took place but at the same time she feels this guy took advantage when she was very drunk. Or tried to take advantage. I don’t really see this guy as a stand up guy. Obviously, no matter what, your son shouldn’t beat him up but he (the other guy) doesn’t sound like such a great guy.

[Heckity]

Agreed, Freudian Slit, I retract my “stand up guy” comment. A stand up guy would never do such a thing. Perhaps my personal relief that everything wasn’t as horrifyingly as it seemed coloured that comment.

I do also agree that my son’s caution to the guy is appropriate given he tried “something”.

[Crowbar_of_Irony_3]

@Mr_Happy

@CrazyChop

Father: 'Look, the truth is more important now, okay?

Yeah, what a silly thing to say
.

shrug It still depends on what’s going on, the people involved and their mood. Kudos that the son for calmly taking it out and the OP for asking the right answers. A ‘Can you tell me what happened’ is very different from ‘Well, your GF may be just making things up’. It’s advisable to never go all-out blazing at the first moment - whether you felt you are the victim or you are the inquisitor.

In the end, there’s a proper time and place for everything, including taking one small bit of what others have posted and post it out of context.

[Freudian_Slit]

@CrazyChop

shrug It still depends on what’s going on, the people involved and their mood. Kudos that the son for calmly taking it out and the OP for asking the right answers. A ‘Can you tell me what happened’ is very different from ‘Well, your GF may be just making things up’. It’s advisable to never go all-out blazing at the first moment - whether you felt you are the victim or you are the inquisitor.

Agreed. I think the son would have taken the latter quite to heart. Bad enough to think that his girlfriend was raped or assaulted, worse to think that someone might insinuate she’s lying. Not that anyone is doing that, just that in his state of mind, he might easily see it that way.

[lieu]

@Heckity

So, psycho talk? Has he ever been in a fight in a bar, or on a street? No. When push came to shove he took an even-tempered look at the facts and saw that the situation had been over-blown. Given that the “guy” tried to force himself on the g.f. I think the caution from my son was most appropriate.

If you polled a number of men and asked them how they would react to the same situation - I imagine you would get a lot of similar responses to my son’s. I’m proud of him for keeping his responses in check and for demonstrating the depth of his commitment to the g.f.

I’m in complete agreement, Heckity. Either because of your good parenting or his inate sense of what’s just and appropriate (or a bit of both), he made the right calls.

I hope in the future the g.f. takes some lesson from this and uses better judgement on when, where and how much to drink. I think you’ve every right to be proud of your son’s decisions and measured response too.

[msmith537]

@Heckity

Notwithstanding, you are now speaking from a place where you have no knowledge whatsoever. My son has high levels of testosterone to be sure - he keeps himself in top shape and has interests in pugilism. He is also a man of great honour and ethics and is extremely bright. He takes his interest in competing physically with other men into an appropriate forum.

He has never, ever, been less than exemplary in his treatment of women. It is that very code that when violated made him angry. He wouldn’t dream of forcing himself on a woman. I would expect that should the g.f. decide to move on and have a “sober date” with the guy, that my son would know about it and move on. The g.f. is not his first. He’s licked the wounds of a broken heart before and undoubtedly will again.

So, psycho talk? Has he ever been in a fight in a bar, or on a street? No. When push came to shove he took an even-tempered look at the facts and saw that the situation had been over-blown. Given that the “guy” tried to force himself on the g.f. I think the caution from my son was most appropriate.

I can only go by what you post here so I don’t pretend to know more about your son than you do. In this particular instance, maybe a friendly word of caution might give the other guy pause so a similar “misunderstanding” doesn’t happen with another girl. OTOH, just the fact that you are here asking about talking your son down from going on a vengence rampage indicates that anger may be a concern. All I’m saying is that he should continue to use his head and you should encourage that.

[Heckity]

I admit to some panic in my initial post msmith537. My son was quite emotional and mentioned missing his Dad in this instance. I felt wholly inadequate to advise him in his moment of anger, as I have never been an advocate of violence, or an eye-for-an-eye. Rather than settling scores, I rely on, call it what you will, karma; the universe; the judicial system; to put miscreants where they belong.

I have my own issues: raised by a militaristic father who believed in physical punishment - any overt anger from a man frightens me. While I have never seen inappropriate actions by my son based on his anger - the potential to make a mistake would reveal itself in just this kind of volatile situation (defending the g.f.'s honour).

As a mother’s voice sounds like “blah, blah, blah” to some sons, and I’d tried every warning, caution, and argument in the early stages of the situation - I came here to find other, better, reasoned suggestions for dealing with the situation.

I was not disappointed, and I thank everyone for helping ground ME in my thinking and ability to help my son and his g.f.

[Heckity]

Thanks, lieu. I’d like to think that it is a combination of lessons learned from his parents and his own innate sense of how to live ethically, responsibly, and with dignity.

I hope in the future the g.f. takes some lesson from this and uses better judgement on when, where and how much to drink. I think you’ve every right to be proud of your son’s decisions and measured response too.

The one benefit that has come from this - is the g.f. and I have crossed into a new area of understanding and intimacy. I am not judgmental by nature and I believe she saw that in how we communicated around the ‘event’. I think she has a better sense of who I am and I am reminded of how young and inexperienced she is.

I hope to have a gentle conversation with her in the future about how to gauge whether she’s at point she should cut herself off - or whether the circumstances warrant greater vigilance to relying on herself.

[Mr_Happy]

@CrazyChop

shrug It still depends on what’s going on, the people involved and their mood. Kudos that the son for calmly taking it out and the OP for asking the right answers. A ‘Can you tell me what happened’ is very different from ‘Well, your GF may be just making things up’. It’s advisable to never go all-out blazing at the first moment - whether you felt you are the victim or you are the inquisitor.

In the end, there’s a proper time and place for everything, including taking one small bit of what others have posted and post it out of context.

Firstly, no one told the OP to say “Well, your GF may just be making things up” or anything similar. We were merely telling HER about these possibilities for her to consider when talking to her son (Maybe saying something like “Can you tell me what happened?”)

All we were saying is that maybe the situation wasn’t how it seemed, and that she should be very aware of this especially when dealing with a son who may take things into his own hands far too quickly.

No one said she was lieing, no one said the alleged victim didn’t do anything wrong. All we said was that in a situation where we don’t know what happened, WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

I’m glad it turned out this way for everyone involved.

[Heckity]

Thank you, FoieGrasIsEvil, me too. There is a lot of good learning in this for everyone too.

[Rico]

@msmith537

It’s tough always being right. SUCK IT lissener!

<mod>

MODERATOR WARNING

What do you think this is, the Pit?

Stop it. Now. At least in here. This is not IMHO talk.

</mod>

[AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet]

I

pointed out that a rapist is unlikely to text someone asking if they’ll “be okay”; and generally don’t give a crap whether someone is angry with them. More likely she had far too much to drink (she’s a wee bit o’ a thing); and the guy did to. He saw a pretty girl and an opportunity and he gave it a shot. He asked if she’d be okay because she fell down after all so had to be pretty loaded - and asked if she was angry because he knew his advances were unwelcome. All-in-all a pretty stand up response from the guy.

To my son’s credit he didn’t track the guy down and punch his lights out or even threaten him per se. What he did do was text the guy and put him on notice. He told him the g.f. was “off limits” to the guy. He told him that there would be repercussions if he tried anything with g.f. again. I can live with that.

She totally overreacted. Son kept himself contained. Crisis averted.

Whew! That is a good thing…it was basicly “had too much to drink”

[Freudian_Slit]

Okay, am I the only one who’s a little disturbed by all these responses? She still said that the guy tried to force himself on her and that she had to shove him off her.

[bengangmo]

@Freudian_Slit

Okay, am I the only one who’s a little disturbed by all these responses? She still said that the guy tried to force himself on her and that she had to shove him off her.

eerrrr - without re-reading the thread what she remembers is that he was trying to kiss her and she shoved him away.

There’s a bit of a difference between “trying to kiss” and “force himself on her” don’t you think? And seriously - given the state she was in, if he was really “trying to force” do you think it would have been much of a problem for him?

[Freudian_Slit]

@bengangmo

eerrrr - without re-reading the thread what she remembers is that he was trying to kiss her and she shoved him away.

There’s a bit of a difference between “trying to kiss” and “force himself on her” don’t you think? And seriously - given the state she was in, if he was really “trying to force” do you think it would have been much of a problem for him?

Well, I’m just using the OP’s words. The fact that she had to scream at him to push him off, and the fact that he knew she was too drunk to move and still tried to kiss her just makes him sound like, at best, a total creep.

[bengangmo]

@Freudian_Slit

Well, I’m just using the OP’s words. The fact that she had to scream at him to push him off, and the fact that he knew she was too drunk to move and still tried to kiss her just makes him sound like, at best, a total creep.

I went back and looked, and took the actual words posted

“She remembers him trying to kiss her and has hazy in and out recollections of shoving him off her and screaming at him to leave”.

The part that I don’t like is the conclusions that are being jumped to still. It is a leap from an attempted kiss to attempted rape right? Also I don’t like “in and out recollections” - you don’t know what was said or done during those times.

Again I would reiterate, do you think its a case of she fought off a determined rapist, and was just lucky to be so strong, or maybe a case of the guy trying his luck, and when it was clear to him she didn’t want it, he backed off?

Not exactly admirable on his part, but do bear in mind he had also been drinking, and while she only remembers bits and pieces of the evening, she was not neccessarily passed out unconscious

[Heart_of_Dorkness]

No, I agree with Freudian Slit. Any guy who “tries his luck” on a girl who is so drunk she can’t walk is an asshole. It’s fantastic that she wasn’t raped, but that doesn’t mean there was never any danger of that happening. He may not have been *determined *to rape her, come hell or high water, but he may well have thought, “She probably won’t be aware of what’s going on or remember.”

Sure, he also may have thought, “She’s been giving me the eye all night, and I bet my advances would be welcome.” But if he thinks that, then the very next thought *has *to be, “I’ll make a move on her as soon as she’s fully conscious again and capable of moving under her own power.” Otherwise, asshole.

[Freudian_Slit]

@Heckity

Facts:
At the house, the female friend left the guy and g.f. alone while she went off to do laundry for about 45 minutes. During that time the guy tried to force himself on g.f. She remembers him trying to kiss her and has hazy in and out recollections of shoving him off her and screaming at him to leave.

Well, the OP used these words.

I’m also seeing it less as “he saw a pretty girl and an opportunity” and more as he saw a drunk girl whose defenses were down.

ETA: I’m aware we don’t know what exactly transpired. Can we really know if any kind of assault happened? No. But if the guy was there and saw her fall out of a cab and his reaction was to hit on her when her roommate was out of the apartment, then he really sounds like someone who needs to be avoided.