ok that was totally uncalled for. if your gonna do that again, dont do it in this thread. got it?
I’m a heterosexual male, and I don’t have much of a problem meeting women (having a real relationship is somewhat of a problem, not for lack of trying). There’s one thing I can recommend though.
Sharing views is a great idea. Often, for guys, it’s tough, but I’ve never had any problem opening up (reason I’ve had more girl friends than “girlfriends”?). I don’t have anything against homosexuals, because I grew up around a few, some of them family friends, others personal friends. Getting to my point, be comfortable in your sexuality. If you can say, “hey, he’s pretty cute,” and not mean it like you want to just jump them, then it’s fine. People respect your respect for others.
And dancing, oh god, dancing. I’m perhaps the only white male with the slightest amount of rhythm im my god forsaken town, and it’s definitely a hit with the ladies.
Having interests other than a girlfriend is a good point to make also. I’m currently interested in this girl, and she’s really cool, and we share this common interest. We’re both writing novels, and it’s a great way to connect. I’m the only one she’s trusted to show her novel to, and that means a lot to me, and it’s a great way to get to know her.
Of course, there’s no feeling on the earth quite like the instant click between you and another person. My last girlfriend and me had that, and that was great. Unfortunately, she had some issues that needed to be resolved without me.
So, in short, be comfortable, be slick, be interested and interesting, and be yourself. All there is to it.
[sarcasm]Believe me. I’m sooo sorry![/sarcasm]
Remember, you have a friend in Jesus (and at the end of your arm).
Hey dins, he’s a friend of mine. Where’s your sense of fighting ignorance?
Oh, and I WILL call on the holy power of Satan’s ass.
Hey, I’m attracted to guys who do treat me with courtesy and respect and seem interested also. If I feel I could bond with them as a friend, they’re sometimes potential boyfriend material if I’m attracted to them sexually. Case in point: my friend, Vaughn. It all started when I thought he was really hot looking in a kilt at renfest. I went on one date with him after talking on the phone for a couple of weeks, then we ended up as friends instead. I feel comfortable talking to him, and he treats me well as a friend and he treats women well in general IMO. Yeah, I do tend to be attracted to guys who tend to be “dorks,” and for some reason the latest trend is guys who like gaming stuff. Thank god I ended that one with my latest big like: I met him at thespians, and I particularly am not interested in gaming. We get along pretty well, and I enjoy talking to him, although I dunno if we’ll actually try things out as a couple any time soon. [Hey, he knows we both like each other, it’s his decision now that he knows I’d like to give it a try.] So I don’t fit the supposed status quo. The status quo is fucked up and can suck my clit. 
I have one word for you, dude.
Oral.
::Skipping the obviously out-of-place replies to a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD::
Okay, you are 15. YOU HAVE TIME. DO NOT SWEAT IT.
You are not sure who you are yet, so you say, and feel a bit awkward when you try to be yourself. Wanna know why? Because you are in transition. 15 is a tough age to be yourself because you still have some parts of you that are pretty young, and other parts that are older, and other parts you haven’t even discovered yet (and no, I’m not talking about the ‘your hand’ post). It is kind of like your voice changing, sometimes it squeaks high, sometimes lower, and you don’t know when it will do what, or where it will actually settle (this from watching my brothers grow up). Your idea of who you are will do the same thing, bounce a bit until it settles into your adult groove, and even that may change tracks over time. At 15, that groove isn’t set enough for you to stay in it all the time, and it is going to feel kind of like trecherous ground until it gets deep enough to hold you better. That will take TIME.
So, Christianity is a big part of who you are. Great, fine. NOW WHAT? Well, there are things you can do with that, things that will help you develop your sense of self. You are old enough to start exploring your faith, not to make it stronger or deeper (it sounds pretty strong as it is), but to make it more complex and subtle. Complex and subtle is not only INTERESTING, it is the way the world works. Go talk to your minister, and ask if there are adult spirituality classes that would be appropriate for you. There are loads of very tough questions that you will continue to explore your entire life, and being comfortable in those tricky spaces is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself - and it also gives you some confidence that you have a clue who you are. Some of the questions are obvious, others are not: “Who am I?” “What do I value most?” “What are my responsibilities as a Christian?” “What is Service (and how am I Serving)?” “How do I know what God wants for me?” “How do I make choices about my life when I don’t know what God wants for me?” “What is goodness?” “What is the nature of evil?” “How do I effectively and respectfully relate to those who are not of my faith?” “How do my actions reflect my faith?” “Which tenets of my faith are the most valuable to me?” etc. Start exploring those questions with a good spiritual advisor or mentor (again, ask your minister), and see where it goes. At the very least, start a journal and explore those questions on paper. These questions will come up again and again in different forms throughout your life, and each time, the answers may change a little, reflecting your life and who you are becoming. Which, by the way is a process that lasts your whole life.
I am not a Christian (by any stretch of the imagination), though I am technically a UU, and daugther of a UU minister. When I was even younger than you, I told my mom all I wanted for Christmas was a boyfriend. So she did a ceremony to invite one into my life, one with traits that I found valuable. There was already a space for one in my life, but every time I put my own thoughts and energy into that space, I filled it up, and there was no room left for ‘boyfriend’ to fit. As my part of the ceremony, I had to promise to learn how to NOT think about it, NOT obsess about it, NOT even let a flicker of my wondering (when, who?) fill that space. As soon as I really STOPPED watching and wondering and thinking, as soon as NOT worrying about it became my habit, THAT is when it happened. And it has worked like that ever since. You may not think you are ‘looking’ or ‘hunting’ or ‘desperate’, but you ARE, just because you are thinking about it. Heck, you were thinking enough about it to POST the question. This is what we all mean by ‘stop looking.’ If your energy is at all in that space, the girlfriend simply will NOT fit.
Since you are a Christian, I’ll put it in those terms. HAVE FAITH. If you really have faith, there is no room to wonder and watch and look and wait. It will simply BE or NOT be, and you do not get to choose the timing. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to improve yourself, get to know yourself, grow up, socialize, make friends, explore your interests, or any of the other hard stuff - God requires your effort, and your future girlfriend isn’t going to be getting a message from the Archangels telling her where you live. But every time you catch yourself wondering who, when, where, how, or catch yourself thinking about it, being depressed about it, or day-dreaming about it, put it consciously back in God’s hands. Have FAITH, truly, deeply, fully. Then go on learning how to be you, and getting to be friends with the girls you meet, and let everything else roll. Learn to be content, and then it won’t matter if she arrives or not, but if she then DOES, you’ll have someone to share it with. (And by the way, teenage dating leaves a LOT to be desired, as far as nice goes. I WOULD NOT GO BACK FOR ANYTHING. Wait, and date girls when you are both a lot more grown up, it will probably save you some pain.)
BTW, I also think you’re thinking of dancing in just one way. Formal dancing isn’t usually problematic in the ‘good Christians don’t dance’ way - try thinking square dancing instead of couple dancing, perhaps? SOCIAL dancing, not pairs dancing. I know some groups still frown on dancing as over-sexualized and a source of temptation (and such perspectives are not nearly as common as you might think!). But social dancing doesn’t generally involve bumping and grinding. 
Try it (or at least check it out) before you reject it out-of-hand. Check your newspaper (or online) for folk-dance clubs, Contra dance, and English dance, too. Scottish Country and English are both old COURT dance styles… think minuets and ladies not being alowed to dance with strange men (lots of fun, though!). Lots of set dances (4-8 people dancing TOGETHER), line dances, and circle dances where you are interacting as a group, doing a pattern of steps that requires a fair part of your brain to be involved… and great exercise, too.
Good luck, again. And stop thinking about it. REALLY.
I agree with most of what has been said. Especially hedra who wisely points out that you are only 15. You need to take time to get used to yourself. I’ll leave the ‘women love men who are jerks’ debate to GD and just speak from my experience.
My dating career was pretty horrorshow. I had a tendency to get, ummm, intense (some might say a bit obsessive) with a person after the first “date”. I say “date” because I went to a boarding school for high school, and you didn’t really “go out” (out to where?) The best relationships I was in were ones that grew. I think there was one like that. The rest were high school relationships. Short & awkward.
Even in college I wasn’t choosing the most mentally healthy girls. They seemed to have needs or issues that I wan’t addressing. Now part of that was because I’m clueless – so I was never recieving the secret messages that they would send so that I would do the great romantic thing that they really wanted but wouldn’t ask for. (Just a little bitterness. it’s fading now)
I’ll just say this now – if the girl plays those games (“read my mind” “if you loved me you’d know what is wrong”) – tell her that you don’t do that. She needs to learn to communicate with you.
Anyway, this intensity often scared the women I dated. I finally got to the point were I was happy with my life the way it was. But that didn’t happen until I was out of college, working, not living with my parents, and comfortable in my adult relationship with my parents. But here’s the secret: you have to really be happy with yourself and your life – you can’t lie to yourself.
Once you are happy with you – then you are ready for a relationship that will enhance your life. That was my mantra. Don’t look for one that will fill a void. People change and when they do, you will find that void empty again.
hedra might have a different memory, but I recall that she said that I was attractive to her because I had my shit together, and was content with myself. All she had to do then was hit me with a (metaphorical) 2x4. Then wait. I really appreciate that she gave me the space to let us become friends which led to love then marriage – and then little Boo in a baby carriage (oops, getting carried away)
Anyway, get yourself together, get centered, get happy. Fill all of your voids. Love will happen.
Hedra, by far this is the best post I’ve seen.I really do appriciate your optimism and actually your ability to change your state of mind temporally to help out a stranger. thank you very much. one thing I should mention about the Minister then, Dragon can verrify (were like close friends at school) that my dad is a minister. so I’m a PK also. thing is, I am Positive on my beliefs. heck, I’ve just been back in the country what? 2 and a half weeks! I’ve been in India preaching in Andrha Prudesh for a month. so thats not an issue. you are correct about the formal dancing though, I’d have no problem doing that, but there are several issues to take in. because I’m a PK, I’m watched constantly by friends to see if I’ll slip or something. If I went to a formal “ok” dance, then people would try to trap me saying “well why cant you go to normal dances?!” then it gets to be a problem. I’ll try to relax about the entire situation though. all I was really wanting to know is how to make myself more pleasing to those around me, specificly the girls. In that area, I’m lost. oh and thanks dragon for stickin up for me. dins…just leave ok? your not helping, and in fact your proving your stupididty by continuing to ramble on. and oh that entire Jesus thing, I hope you know what your getting yourself into. trust me, your in deep problems when you do that. but to prevent this from becoming a religius bebate, I’ll leave it there. so anybody, while im not looking for anyone, what can I do to make others like me? I’m talkin just generally pleasing.
One word.
Confidence.
What is a girlfriend supposed to be at 15 anyway?
You can have a girlfriend pretty easily. Just say so&so is your girlfriend. That’s all there is to it. Of course, if she says you are her boyfriend, that would be a bonus.
::channeling Miss Manners::
Gentle Reader:
I fear that Etiquette has nothing to say on the topic of what makes a young lady’s heart beat faster.
However, Etiquette has established rules about social discourse designed to help young gentlemen meet and converse with young ladies without embarrassment, shock or unpleasantness.
Rule 1. The Introduction. In the vernacular of Sam Cooke: “If I could meet 'em, I could get 'em, but as yet I haven’t met 'em, that’s how I’m in the state I’m in.” If a mutual acquaintace introduces you to a young lady, you are given an impramatur of acceptability–the young lady will know the character of your mutual acquaintance, and will be able to judge whether he or she is likely to be introducing a cad, stalker or ax-murderer. Likewise, if you are involved in supervised activities with the young lady, such as school, work or organized amusements, you will each have the chance to observe the other’s words and actions over an extended period, thus enabling you both to make a more-informed judgment as to the desirability of beginning a more intense acquaintance. Of course it is possible to meet young ladies without such an introduction, but you are much more likely to succeed, and the young ladies are much more likely to be compatible, if there is a proper introduction.
Rule 2. Sensitive Topics of Conversation. People have strong and varied opinions on politics, religion and money. Etiquette typically discourages discussion of these topics in casual social discourse to avoid bruised feelings. Of course, if you meet others in a fourm the purpose of which is to encourage such discussions, such as a bible study group, a campaign rally or the Great Debates forum here at the SDMB, such topics may be debated, so long as the parties remain polite and civil.
Rule 3. The Written Note. Once you have met an interesting person, you may wish to consider dropping that person a written note to say how much you have enjoyed his or her conversation. Etiquette finds modern electronic means of communication perfectly acceptable, so long as the niceties of grammar, capitalization and spelling are observed, and so long as you do not expect people to be immediately available to respond. This is particularly useful for those who may find themselves tongue-tied in the presence of particularly interesting people.
Miss Manners wishes you well as you enter into adult society.
::channeling completed::
You’re playing so cool, obeying every rule. Deep way down in your heart you’re burning yearning for the sun. Somebody to tell you that life ain’t passing you by. I’m trying to tell you it will if you don’t even try. You’ll get by if you’d only cut loose, footloose, kick off the Sunday shoes.
Sorry, but its been going thru my head all day.
In my humble opinion, you either have to ditch the baggage, or learn to enjoy hauling it around with you. And a religion as restrictive as yours certainly constitutes some significant baggage. Not saying you can’t lead an enjoyable life, but if you choose to voluntarily impose some pretty extreme restrictions upon yourself, you can’t moan about what you’re missing.
Also IMHO, its a damn shame someone would be so fucked up as to tell their kid they can’t do something as joyful as dancing. Purt near child abuse. Ain’t freedom of religion a wonderful thing! But, opinions are like assholes, and I certainly have been called worse.
Be yourself.
But also be the best version of yourself - be thoughtful of others, play fair, be honest, do whatever you do well and with faith in your own ability to achieve excellence. Lighten up. Enjoy the ride.
Live your own life, enjoy it. When the right girl comes along, and she will, you want to have a life to share.
Ease up. If you’re no good at something, say so, laugh, accept it. Don’t fake. Accept yourself, get comfy in your own skin. You’re just doing what we’re all doing - making the best hand you can with the cards you got dealt.
A degree of neatness, cleanliness, good hygiene etc. has never been known to make the male’s chances worse.
Don’t overdose on fiction, TV and movies for your sense of how relationships work. Real life is different.
Accept the rules which we all have to play by. Sometimes, Miss Wonderful just isn’t interested. Sometimes, Miss Wonderful accepts one date, but it’s awful. Or the date goes well, you do everything right, but you get dumped anyway. Welcome to the same experiences we all have. If - and only if - you can accept these realities, then you can play the game with confidence and enjoy it. Because sometimes the good stuff comes too: she likes you, the date goes well, you have good times. We’re all on the same merry-go-round.
Good luck.
UGH. Date the Preacher’s Kid? Are you KIDDING? No wonder you don’t have dates!!! Forget about it until college. And by the way, GO AWAY TO COLLEGE (don’t do hometown school, or you STILL won’t get dates!).
Honestly, that is a big part of the problem. You are boxed in if you are letting your father’s career make your decisions for you. You can’t try dancing, ‘what would people think?’ You can’t date someone just because you like them, because what if she’s outside your faith? You have let yourself be trapped.
Guess what. You are not responsible for your father’s choice of career, but you ARE responsible for your own choices. Do you have any idea what happens to most PKs? They flee, or they explode. VERY VERY FEW make it to adulthood without a big ugly mess in there somewhere. Now, most kids end up having some kind of big ugly mess in their path to adulthood, but when you’ve closed yourself in to the space where you THINK your parents want you to be, busting out is really REALLY ugly. And the only way to not bust out is to kill yourself in some way - hence the huge suicide/drug-abuse/alcholism rate in PKs. Please don’t go THERE, either.
Does your father really expect you to be perfect? I doubt it. He’d LIKE it, sure (I’d like my own son to be perfect, too), but if he really expects you to become exactly who he envisions, he has a major problem with SIN OF PRIDE. Who you are and who you become are issues between you and God, and are not for anyone else to choose. So, maybe he doesn’t actually expect that, but you are offering to be perfect for him anyway? Because being a minister is a sucky, stressful, exhausting, miserable, lonely job that you only do because God drives you to it with a need that cannot be denied… and you love and respect him. So why should you make his life harder when you can make it easier by not making him have to worry about your actions/behavior/reputation? Because you are the kid, that’s why. It isn’t your job to take care of his worries, it is his job to help you grow up normally. You’ll need a TON of therapy to get over it if you MAKE it your job to take care of his needs before your own.
How about a case in point. My mom’s cousin is an evangelical minister (more your end of the spectrum than mine). He did expect his sons to be perfect, because they were raised in the Light of the Lord. Not one of them is perfect. They are all, instead, HUMAN. And the only one of them who is still even vaguely in the same faith really doesn’t want to be around dad at all, because it is too damn painful. Did this make life ANY nicer for Dad? Absolutely the opposite - he’s lonely, confused, heartbroken. Two other sons booked for the hills, religion-wise, and his daughter ended up agnostic, from all I can tell. He put an impossible burden on them, AND THEY ACCEPTED THE BURDEN, and the only way they could escape when their undeniable need to be themselves woke up was to flee as far as they could. They tried their whole childhoods to be perfect for him, and that can’t work, because nobody can be perfect. His life was going to be hard no matter what they did, because ministry just IS hard. By trying to take care of his needs, ease his burden, reduce his worries, they only gave him a short-term releif, and in the end all of them ended up hurt much worse. There are grandkids who haven’t met him, and probably will never meet him - that in a family that valued family - how much agony does it take to do that? PLEASE DON’T GO THERE. Be yourself, NOW, instead. Your dad is a grownup, he’ll survive.
Let me reiterate (or beat the horse to death): It isn’t your job to take care of your father’s reputation. You don’t have to TRASH it to be free, but if you don’t try to figure out how to ignore the judgements of others in the course of figuring out who YOU are, you will certainly do worse for him in the long run. Don’t end up another exploding-PK, example of the worst PKs can be. You think you can do it, be good enough, be just right - but go back and look at your post and see if you can’t see the burden and the tension there already… Instead, require of yourself that you BE yourself - if you want to learn to dance (social dancing or whatever), go take a class or go to an event. If anyone asks why you didn’t go to another dance, just shrug and let them try to figure it out on their own. You are letting the opinions of others rule you - peer pressure, as well as PK-pressure. let it go. It isn’t important in the long run, and it will cause you more pain than peace. Be one of the few PKs in the middle - not perfect, not even trying to protect the P’s reputation, just trying to be the best/most-whole/most-complete ‘you’ for YOUR sake, not for anyone else’s. If you succeed at that, good parents can’t be anything but proud.
And let me repeat: CONFIDENCE. You are exuding ‘poor-little-PK-me’ vibes, as well as desperate ones. That’s both blazingly insecure and really arrogant. Stop wondering how others see you, and start just living and doing what you love. There is no secret, no trick, no easy way to get there. You have to slog along like everyone else. Jump out of the PK box, and see if you can live in a reasonable space on the outside. I expect your natural space isn’t far outside where you have placed your limits, but you can’t grow into that whole space if you don’t allow yourself to explore the actual limits of it (and your human nature will require you to reach for your natural space). Once again, good luck. Won’t be easy, but that’s life.
And Dinsdale, I take your point re: baggage, but would you rather be right or would you rather be effective? Wanna rephrase in a less combative tone so the poor guy can take it in? Do you remember what being 15 was like?
I like Ianzin’s post labeled “In brief” and it’s long. Heh.
I can’t believe you people, he gets so much bonus with girls if he can get someone to play “son of a preacher man”! Motown, ain’t nothing like it.
Great song! Illustrates the point about PKs though. (lemme guess, dad wouldn’t have approved AT ALL…)
And re-reading, I come across a bit harsh, too. Just been there, seen that in a lot of other PKs. Don’t like seeing it happen, the crush/explode thing.
Your missing the point about being a preacher’s kid. My mom and dad dont FORCE me to do anything. I choose not to cause it contridicts the bible (but I’m not wanting that to become a debate either) and 2, most people dont know I am one. I dont go around saying “awwww! you cant do that! thats bad! bad girl bad BAD!” of course not! I’m a teenage just like everyone else is! I just choose not to do some things. and it comes off to everyone, including the girls that I just have good morals. goody tu-shoes no. just good morals. I’ve been complimented on having them many a time by none other than GIRLS. I dont know what type of lives you live, but its not your option to bash me for something that I actually work for! any of you who tried to do that to me, you should seriouly feel bad! I’m not going around telling you that “ohhhh! getting A’s in school/collage is STUPID maaaaaaan! you cant have any fun when you do that maaaaan!” what would you think of me? duhr, a stupid idiot. but I’m not like that! In fact, I’d be chearin you guys on for working at something, and sticking with it! or maybe some of you dont have anything that your good at sticking to! so thing is, dont bash me cause I choose to follow the bible. if a girl ever would avoid me because I follow it, she’s better off being written off my checklist, cause she’s not worth my time. as a dating issue, she doesnt have to agree with my morals, but she better not try to change em or she’s gonna have a heck of a time getting along with me. as the great Army of our country once said “if yousus 'aint part of the salootiun, yousus part of da problim” that means all of you. if your not going to give actual help without critisism of what I believe most in, then you have no right to talk to me. got it? cause I wont put up with it!
and let me say another thing! My dad is a GREAT MAN! By no way shape or form does he make me lead my life to be a christian! thats my own choice! I dont panic about making “mom and dad look like good parents” cause they ARE GOOD PARRENTS! they raised me to make my own desions and by no shape or form do they try to run my life! how DARE you try to assume that my dad is a psychopath who tries to do just that. you know those PK’s who do drugs/alchol/etc…? well you know WHY they do that? CAUSE THEY HAVE BAD PARENTS! I might have seriously screwed this thread by a different subject, but there is a sence of DISHONOR that you have tried to bring me! this is just horrible that you’d do that, and also, I dont give off “poor-me PK vibes” at all! heck, I’m proud of it. dont assume unless you know. and we all know the little analagy people do with the word assume! and I repeat “yousus part of da problem!” so either stop it or something but I never want to hear that again from you. you killed the horse with sawed off shotgun, and it was the WRONG HORSE TO BEGIN WITH!
yaknow. after all this, I’m seriously concidering abandoning all of the straight dope boards. this is a place to help others, and to give good opinions on things, but not to bash. thats what the Pit is for. unless I see some change, I’m exiting as of tonight