Actually, i realized that about a millisecond after i posted. You dirty dog! 
Actually, Pucky old chap, you seem to be little uninformed if you believe that it’s only women who do such things. While you might be generally correct about control-top pantyhose, many of the other things you cite are actually done quite frequently by men.
Coloring hair, for instance. My hair is currently its natural color, but that is mainly because i’m in grad school and can’t afford the extra $50 it costs to get it done (and i’m too gutless to do it myself). But i’ve had my hair done a variety of different shades in the past, and it never once occurred to me that i was being dishonest with anyone. Nor do i think women who color their hair are being dishonest. Hell, if a guy is willing to go out with a woman just because of her hair color, he deserves whatever he gets, IMHO.
And, while you might go on a diet or hit the gym in order the improve your body, one of the fastest-growing areas of cosmetic surgery in the US right now is well-heeled men having things like pectoral implants, calf implants, bicep implants, and facial surgery in order to appear more athletic and attractive.
Also, regarding the whole bank balance thing, have you considered the possibility that some women seek a man who makes decent money because women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security? And even women who earn decent money often have to find a guy who earns more because so many men seem to feel somehow emasculated if their girlfriends or wives earn more than they do.
Makeup and hair dye are advertised on TV; it’s not like they’re “super secret man-catching gear for women”. Like it or not, control top pantyhose and underwire bras are pretty standard women’s clothing items; I find it difficult sometimes to find the non-control top version. Shouldn’t pantyhose itself be on your deception list - that woman’s legs aren’t really that shade of tan (or black, or white, or navy, or…)! How about plucking eyebrows - is it a dealbreaker if your girlfriend was born with brows that would rival those of Brooke Shields, but she prunes them biweekly into nice, tidy crescents? Are hair stylists part of the conspiracy to Help Women Trick Men, when they perm, straighten, or blow-dry hair into forms it doesn’t usually take for that woman? How about contact lenses or laser eye surgery - is someone covering up their poor vision?
The “deception” of makeup, hair dye, and clothing like shoulder pads and so forth (by the way, men’s suits are standardly tailored the way I listed) isn’t important because it doesn’t really matter. It’s as superficial as judging someone by their bank balance. What matters is treating your SO with respect, and being able to believe the words they say. The guy in the OP is trying to play both women along by lying to them about his emotions for them. I think there’s just a teeny bit of difference between that and “you mean your cheeks aren’t naturally that rosy and you get a zit now and then?”
And watch where you’re slinging those generalizations, anyway. Just because the women you meet do those things, doesn’t mean all of them do - or just because you and the guys you know don’t dye their hair, wear makeup (yes, some men do to cover zits, scars, blotches, birthmarks, etc.), get plastic surgery, wear something to cinch that gut in, etc., doesn’t mean that none of them do. mhendo nicely pointed that out.
(If it matters, I only started wearing makeup, getting underwire bras, and dyeing my hair after getting married - and my husband had poorer future job prospects than I when we met during college.)
You just know there’s always got to be a Sir Galahad trying to impress the chicks by parroting that stuff, but here goes.
Everyone who picks up my trash? Men. Everyone who dangles 20 stories in the air washing the windows on my office building? Men. Never seen a woman out there, not one. Every person I’ve ever hired to get up on my roof for some job or another? Men. Most of the world’s most dangerous jobs are done by men, so that they make up something like 95% of all on-the-job fatalities. This is prolly a topic for a whole nother thread – like the fact that low-paid work like waitressing tends to be safer (it’s indoors) flexible and temporary. But this whole business about some women seeking out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons? Gwan. She wants to seek out a man with money, fine. Just please don’t wag your tail in front of the guy in the Armani and tell us it’s because he’s kind to animals, etc.
Have you ever noticed that women like Jane Fonda (well-off movie star) or Mary Tyler Moore (well-off TV star) tend to marry execs with mega-bucks? Maybe it’s because the women don’t respect a man who makes less.
And if mhendo is a woman, I retract the gratuitous Sir Galahad snipe.
And lying is still pretty much part of politics. The prevalence of them don’t make them honest.
Shields looks good with her eyebrows. I applaud her decision to keep them that way.
I agree. But there are lots of women who chase a man with money and then try to play it that they really love him for some inner soulful quality. Many women present a complete false image of themselves, right down to a mask of makeup, deceptive clothing, and hypocrisy about what they want, and then scream “why can’t men be honest?” That bugs me.
I’d watch 'em if I could find 'em in any of my posts. I do believe I’ve qualified everything with “many” or “some.”
And just because all of them don’t doesn’t mean none of them do.
Did I say that right?
And just where, in this little rant, is there a single point to refute my earlier post, which was, if you recall, about job security and pay levels, not on-the-job safety?
And nowhere did i ever say anything remotely like “women [seek] out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons.” All i was doing was providing a corrective to your overzealous generalizing.
Again, i’m sure some women do feel this way. But i never said that none of them did. And your two extremely atypical examples are not going to convince me that this is the norm.
I can’t recall anyone, least of all me, ever saying that they do. As i said before, my points were simply designed as a corrective to your generalizations.
And i notice that you completely ignored the substantive points i made regarding men who color their hair, get cosmetic surgery, etc.
You do have an interesting debating technique, however:
- Make a simplistic, reductionist generalization.
- When other people make points that call your generalization into question:
(a) ignore the substantive issues
(b) accuse those people of generalizing - Repeat as necessary.
Well, in my city, trash collectors make about $26/hour, window washers about $18/hour, roofers about $20/hour, plus overtime for $30/hour.
Waitresses make $5.25 an hour, plus tips of about $7/hour for a total of $12.25. (Tips are based on what an average waitress can expect to make per hour, averaged over an entire week. On a weekend, $15/hour in tips might happen, but on a Monday, you’re looking at more like $3-5/hour.)
Receptionists start at about $10/hour.
Anyhow - your point isn’t valid - even men in Blue Colar jobs are paid more than women in Pink Colar jobs - is this because they hang from buildings and what not? Probably, but that doesn’t change the bottom line at the end of the day.
And once again, I have to point out that this:
is obnoxious.
Are there some women like this? No doubt. But again, you’re phrasing suggests that you’re painting all women with the same brush.
Excuse me. I didn’t know you had the right to screen out all factors that don’t fit your argument.
You claimed, “women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security” (I’d like cites.) My point is valid because dangerous or unpleasant work often has to pay more to attract workers, hence the applicablity to “low-paid employees.” Waitressing, etc., does not have to pay a lot or offer job security because so many people are willing to do it. The market determines this.
If you are so opposed to generalizing, why haven’t you said anything about the title of this thread?
Terrific. And I said it was dishonest of them to chase money and pretend they don’t.
Ye olde usenet trick. Claim that the part of a longwinded post that was ignored was “substantive” or “ignored.” Yawn. I trimmed it for space rathen than belabor the point that it’s fake for anyone to do it.
Great. Getting nagged on the board.
heee heee heeeeee “Batty” an “Arsehole”…
heeeee! 
[sub]You know I love you really. [/sub]
Yup, that counts. Sounds like a couple of marriages I know of.
So then the point is valid.
So? Plumbers probably make a lot more money than a receptionist. If the receptionist objects to this, there is nothing stopping her or him from going to plumbing school. The receptionist gets less money because it’s a hirer’s market.
The same brush when I cited two specific women?
Note: Pucky said there are four president’s heads on Mt. Rushmore. Therefore, Pucky said there are presidents on every mountain.
And if you’re so all-fired opposed to generalizations, when are you going to weigh in on the title of this thread? Pretending to oppose generalizations is dishonest unless you do.
The original poster first broadened it to include all people’s assholic dating tendencies to not be honest about their feelings, then retracted it to apparently only having had problems with the guys she dated. She also denied the possibilities you offered. I think that takes care of her generalization issue; you seem to be the one left leveling generalizations at women. Before you say no, it’s some women, you’re ignoring people when they cite that some men do the exact same things that women do.
The issue is that you presented your post as a direct response to mine, yet failed even to address the issues i was talking about. These “factors” that you are talking about, even if they are as you describe them, are beside the point when addressing the issue of why women might want to find a man who earns more money. If a woman is not earning enough to live on by herself, the reasons for this (job difficulty, danger, etc.) are largely irrelevant in terms of her need to find someone to help support her.
Well, for information you could probably start with the BLS site that i linked to before and do a search - i’m sure you can manage that.
And, even though your analysis of why waiting tables pays less is quite accurate, it is not germane. Even if women do avoid high paying jobs because they are dangerous, the reason for avoiding them does not remove the necessity, for some of these women, of finding a man who earns enough to help them get through life. The causes of these economic motivations might be complex, as you suggest, but it does not mean the motivations are not real and valid.
Because, if you had bothered to look, the OP retracted this statement pretty early on, before i made my first contribution.
Just because you say it’s an old trick doesn’t make it invalid. You’ve spent most of your time on this thread emphasizing the dishonesty of women and downplaying that of men, such as:
Yeah, men might admit this to one another, but i’ve rarely heard of a man who will admit this to a woman he is (or is not, for that matter) interested in. And isn’t honesty between the sexes the key issue in this thread?
Also, is it impossible for you to imagine that a question about what someone does for a living might actually not be primarily motivated by a desire to know that person’s income? While it does not completely define us as people, the sort of work we do, when placed in context with the rest of who we are, says something about us. If i met a woman and she told me that she worked for a conservative, “family values” think-tank, that would probably predispose me against having anything further to do with her, whether she made $20,000 at the job or $200,000. We all look for people who share certain elements of our own world-view, even if we do not always look for complete agreement. Indeed, the debates i have with my girlfriend on a variety of issues are one of the things i like about our relationship. I can think of nothing worse than being with someone who reflexively agreed with everything i said.
Luckily, that doesn’t happen here on the Boards, either.
What Ferret Herder said.
Besides, even if the OP did have a generalization in it, that doesn’t excuse you making huge sweeping ones with the biggest-ass brush you can find, particularly since the OP retracted the statement.
But you carry right on. You’re making a really good impression. No, really.
So let’s hear you denounce the generalization, since you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about them.
Nope. I never made any unqualified generalization about the female majority. You’re just one of those women who will not tolerate any criticism of women.
Note: I do not apply that to all women. Just to you.
I am not doing your research for you. Put up or don’t.
I will now emphasize your – not all women, your – dishonesty for that remark. I cited examples of dishonesty I’ve seen among some women. You – specifically you are one of those women who get all up in arms when someone criticizes a woman.
Sure. But go among your girlfriends and say “I’m dating a doctor,” and a week later say “I’m dating a garbage collector.” Do I need to spell out the reactions?
So - are you trying to blame your lack of success with women on the fact that you have a crappy job, Pucky?
Just asking.
Speaking of dishonesty, you’re doing great. I made no generalizations. You are simply attempting to cut off debate by making such an accusation.
You seem to have an inflated estimation of the worth of your opinion.
Doing fine in both areas, A lice.
But I knew you’d get around to that slam.