Exactly, and men, the correct answer to this question is:
No, the dress doesn’t make you look fat. It’s that goddamn Ding-Dong in your mouth that makes you look fat!!! :eek:
SSG Schwartz
Sorry, “no” doesn’t always mean “no”, especially where sex is concerned. A girl who gives it up without any effort is considered a whore and a man who won’t pursue his interests is considered weak. What happens most of the time is a cat-and-mouse game with “no” and “come on” and “maybe”, where both parties feel like they’ve won. The girl feels like she’s a prize to be won, and the guy feels like he’s a big manly man on the prowl that just sacked a grizzly with a pocket knife.
Pretending this social script isn’t there and saying “no always means no” is sticking your fingers in your ears and singing “la la la I don’t hear you.”
Where this set of social scripts goes wrong is when the woman either doesn’t know how to get across a serious no by either being too weak-willed to give a forceful no, or by not giving off the proper signals that the game is over or it never began. More often, though, it is in men who aren’t socially intelligent enough to read the proper cues. So when they get called on rape in the morning, they genuinely have no idea why–mostly because of being clueless morons.
Wrong.
If my ding dong is in a woman’s mouth, the last thing I’m going to do is call her fat.
It’s people who play these coy little games that fuck it up for everyone else.
Okay, wait. “No,” means “yes” but I don’t want to seem like a slut. Men are poor communicators?
I cannot believe in this day and age a woman can’t say “take me now, big boy!” and the man is going to scream “aaaaah, slut!” and run away.
Could you possibly provide a link to this thread? My interest is piqued.
Let’s put it this way: Every single one night stand I’ve ever had, including at least one woman who was in her forties, has said, in the morning, “Wow, I’ve never done that before!” Part of it may be that she doesn’t want me to think she’s a slut, but she also doesn’t want to think of *herself *as a slut. I always use a condom if I’m not in a monogamous relationship, so I couldn’t care less.
You may have this social script. I think it’s the stuff that bad relationships and indictments are made of.
Or the person saying yes wouldn’t be very popular.
“You may have this social script. I think it’s the stuff that bad relationships and indictments are made of.”
Hurrah. I am with you. Life is too short to spend it second-guessing people. If no does not mean no then we might as well give up communication entirely.
Maybe she meant she never fell asleep before kicking a man out and throwing the deadbolt behind him?
How do you know what she’s thinking? Is it possible the idea of “slut” isn’t even in her consciousness? I bet it is.
What is it you don’t care about?
I’m doing fine, actually. The world doesn’t come crumbling down if you refuse to play mind games. That’s just what the players of mind games want the rest of us to believe so they keep their pathetic power.
Thing is, we’re not robots. While I certainly prefer a direct approach and generally think I take a direct approach in life, there will be times when I could tell somebody else’s “no” is just a matter of shyness or politeness, or when my “no” is the same. I personally don’t mind the social dance, so long as it’s not taken to an extreme.
I don’t want a world where everybody always says exactly what they mean. That’s like living in a world of robots. I like the fact that we’re imperfect, we don’t always know what we want, we say things we don’t mean, we might change our minds after considering for a few seconds, different cultures have different ways of handling things, etc. I like the variety, the flaws, the mystery.
I agree that it would be scary to live in a world where everyone always says exactly what they mean. But it’s not possible anyway, since we’re imperfect creatures. I think the best we can do is to try to be precise in social situations, and I think that effort is exquisitely important.
There are two factors you’re not considering.
First is how the girl thinks of herself. If she thinks she’s not an easy lay and goes home with a guy without nary a peep to the contrary, she’s going to be forced to deal with the cognitive dissonance that follows.
Second, is how other people will think of her. Santo Rugger has the right idea. “I’ve never done that before!” is a way of maintaining that positive self image and trying spin a positive viewpoint on herself while simultaneously inflating the ego of the man she’s with. And if other men see her going home with everyone in the office, they’re going to be turned off to her. Regardless of how you might think men will fuck anything in sight, some really do have the ability to “no thanks.”
You might feel high and mighty for bucking the trend, but it’s there and most people subscribe to it (Check & Malamuth, 1983, White, Donat & Humphre, 1995).
I don’t like that people will treat me differently if I wear a t-shirt rather than a tie. My abilities in my profession are completely irrelevant to my attire, but there is still a script that says “people with ties are more competent.” Is it fair or efficient? No, but I’m not going to do myself many favors ignoring it and hoping to find another person who agrees.
It seems you may have found people who agree with you to always say exactly what you mean–cool beans, that’s great for you. I know plenty, as well. But I also know plenty who don’t, and I’m not going to ignore them on that single basis.
What I’m talking about aren’t mind games - or I don’t see them that way. I’m really glad you have found a place where people appreciate your apparent directness. I’m doing fine, as well. Maybe the idea here is to find a spot that works for you and stop worrying so much why other people put up with what you think is crap and they actually value.
Stuff like this really makes me hate (some) other women. If you want to pig out on ice cream, do it, but don’t make it into some passive aggressive game.
Sometimes shy and insecure people aren’t playing mind games, they really are shy and/or insecure. Yes, you can refuse to dance the social dance with people, but it will alienate some and hurt others and will cost you potential friendships with people if you assume that they are working out of the worst possible motives.
My flaw is really too much the other way–I tend to railroad people because I get single-minded and too often think my idea is the best before I have thought it all the way through. People that love me tolerate that and know I try. I can tolerate the opposite in them.
Why not? We do things all the time that make our partner feel better.
No.
Regards,
Shodan