Where might Trump go?

[solost]

@Little_Nemo

I acknowledge there’s very little chance Trump will end up in prison. But if he did he would be a very high-profile prisoner. He’d be placed in a supermax so he could be protected from other prisoners.

In a low security prison filled with non-violent white-collar criminals, I doubt he’d get shivved or anything. He’d probably be their hero.

But if he does go to prison, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong!

[Elmer_J.Fudd]

Maybe Putin will buy him an island where he can be president of a Epstein-style honey trap.

[Brayne_Ded]

@Riemann

@HMS_Irruncible

assuming of course that Scotland will have him.

Why would they? It would be incredibly unpopular to allow it. There are plenty of right wingers in the U.K., and a fair number of pro-Trumpers prior to recent events, but not of the looney tunes insurrectionist variety. He can’t just move there as s permanent resident without going through the same immigration process as anyone else. A silver lining from Brexit is that his wife’s Slovenian passport doesn’t get him in.

Let him go to Scotland by all means. Iran has put out a request to Interpol to have him arrested, and IMHO Scotland would dutifully / cheerfully comply after doing the usual checks as long as Iran promises not to suspend him from a crane.

[JRDelirious]

@HMS_Irruncible

I clearly wrote “no extradition treaty with New York,”

Still was confusing, but sure, in his mind he would believe it to be a matter of NY vs. Scotland (and wouldn’t he be surprised to learn it’s actualy between US and UK and there is one)

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

It’s the place to be!

[HMS_Irruncible]

@JRDelirious

Still was confusing, but sure, in his mind he would believe it to be a matter of NY vs. Scotland (and wouldn’t he be surprised to learn it’s actualy between US and UK and there is one)

The point, for anyone who is still confused, is that Trump will likely be pardoned of all except state charges, and no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges.

That’s why it makes sense for him to flee to a foreign property instead of to Mar-A-Lago. And if we’re deciding which foreign property it would be, the strongest contender is always going to be a property in a white English-speaking country, which would be Trump International Scotland.

[JRDelirious]

@HMS_Irruncible

no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges.

I want a cite on that.
Due to the way the US legal system works, that would make virtually all “common” crimes committed in US soil, even murders, become unextraditable.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@JRDelirious

I want a cite on that.

Regrettably enough, I am unable to prove a negative, so no cite will be forthcoming.

You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one.

[Northern_Piper]

@HMS_Irruncible

• No extradition treaty with New York
• Stronger libel/slander laws in the UK

On the extradition point, it’s not Scotland that has an extradition treaty, it’s the UK, and that treaty is with the US. If there are reasonable grounds to believe an individual has committed a criminal offence in the US and is in the UK, then the US can apply to the UK for extradition. Doesn’t matter if it’s an offence under state law or federal law. The courts and the UK government then decide whether or not to extradite. The Government of Scotland isn’t involved in the decision.

On the second point, there is no UK law of libel/slander. There is English/Welsh law of libel and slander, and Scots law. My understanding is that it is easier to show defamation under Scots law than under English/Welsh law, but I don’t have a good cite for that. Will keep poking around.

[Northern_Piper]

@HMS_Irruncible

You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one.

Here’s three cases from Canada where US citizens were extradited to the United States to face state murder charges. (The point in dispute in all three cases wasn’t whether they should be extradited, but whether the Canadian government should only extradite on an assurance that they would not face the death penalty.)

Kindler v. Canada (Minister of Justice) - SCC Cases

The appellant was found guilty of first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder and kidnapping in the State of Pennsylvania and the jury recommended the imposition of the death penalty. Before he was sentenced, the appellant escaped from prison and fled to Canada where he was arrested. After a hearing, the extradition judge allowed the U.S.'s application for his extradition and committed the appellant to custody. The Minister of Justice of Canada, after reviewing the material supplied by the appellant, ordered his extradition pursuant to s. 25 of the Extradition Act without seeking assurances from the U.S., under Art. 6 of the Extradition Treaty between the two countries, that the death penalty would not be imposed or, if imposed, not carried out. Both the Trial Division and the Court of Appeal of the Federal Court dismissed appellant’s application to review the Minister’s decision. This appeal is to determine whether the Minister’s decision to surrender the appellant to the U.S., without first seeking assurances that the death penalty will not be imposed or executed, violates the appellant’s rights under s. 7 or s. 12 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms . In addition, this Court stated the following two constitutional questions: whether s. 25 of the Extradition Act infringes s. 7 or s. 12 of the Charter ; and, if so, whether such infringement is justified under s. 1 .

Held (Lamer C.J. and Sopinka and Cory JJ. dissenting): The appeal should be dismissed. The extradition order is confirmed. Section 25 of the Extradition Act does not infringe s. 7 or s. 12 of the Charter .

See also a case where an accused was charged with murder under California law:

Reference Re Ng Extradition

See also US v Burns, where two individuals charged with murder under Washington state law were extradited, but in that case only on condition that the United States give assurances that they would not face the death penaltyl:

United States v Burns

[JRDelirious]

Ira Einhorn | Extradition

Returned to the US to face murder charges in Pennsylvania courts.

[Northern_Piper]

And here’s the summary of the defition of “extraditble offence” in the US UK Extradition Treaty:

Article 2 concerns extraditable offenses. Article 2(1) defines an offense as extraditable if the conduct on which the offense is based is punishable under the laws in both States by deprivation of liberty for a period of one year or more or by a more severe penalty.

It’s based solely on the punishment, not whether it’s a state or federal offence.

[mheine]

I think you’re right, but I hope he goes to jail first.

[Peter_Morris]

@HMS_Irruncible

The point, for anyone who is still confused, is that Trump will likely be pardoned of all except state charges, and no foreign country (or part of a foreign country) is going to extradite based on state charges.

I believe Joe Biden said several weeks ago that he won’t be pardoning Trump. Probably even less so now. The guy is literally a traitor.

Why wouldn’t Scotland extradite him to face State level charges? As long as the death penalty is off the table, there will be no problem.

[Mundane_Super_Hero]

To quote the late great Sean Connery from the movie, ‘Diamolds are Forever’…

[Northern_Piper]

@Brayne_Ded

Iran has put out a request to Interpol to have him arrested, and IMHO Scotland would dutifully / cheerfully comply after doing the usual checks as long as Iran promises not to suspend him from a crane.

@Peter_Morris

Why wouldn’t Scotland extradite him to face State level charges?

It’s not Scotland’s decision. Extradition is a matter for the UK government.

[friedo]

@HMS_Irruncible

You’re welcome to prove me wrong by demonstrating any case law where a US state ever successfully extradited from a non-US country on state charges. If it’s a real thing, it shouldn’t be hard to find one.

This happens literally every week. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Here’s a link to someone who was extradited from Australia to California regarding a hit-and-run case.

The Department of Justice has an entire office who’s job is to prepare extradition process pursuant to international treaties, and a significant chunk of those are on behalf of state governments.

[eschereal]

I envision a classy stateroom on the USS Pueblo.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@JRDelirious

Returned to the US to face murder charges in Pennsylvania courts.

Fair enough. Ignorance fought, I have to be wrong now and then.

[Jasmine]

Some place that doesn’t have an extradition agreement with the United States?