Who's the biggest jerk in this situation?

Inspired by real-life events of mine. Names changed to protect the guilty. It’s all about a decade old anyway, so it’s not like it matters what people think, but it came up recently and I figured the dope always has superior insights.

The background: This story involves 5 named people and a few unnamed ones (since they aren’t important). Alice and Bob are a couple; they’ve been dating about a year and have a healthy sex life. Cathy and Daniel are also a couple; they’ve been dating a couple of years and don’t have a healthy sex life; Daniel’s saving himself for marriage much to Cathy’s frustration. Ernesto knows both Alice and Cathy and is friends with them. Alice and Bob don’t yet know Cathy and Daniel. Of her social group, Alice is the hub, and frequently throws parties at her place, with usually 10-12 people in attendance. There’s a standing notion that if you’re invited, your significant other is invited, and you can invite any of your friends and their significant others without asking Alice.

The pertinent events: One day, Ernesto invites Cathy to one of Alice’s parties. She agrees, and brings Daniel along. Alice and Bob welcome Cathy and become her friend. Daniel sits in a corner and doesn’t talk to anyone. Neither Alice, Bob, or Ernesto become Daniel’s friend, mainly because he’s a wet blanket and doesn’t join in the games.

A few months later, Alice and Bob realize they have basically nothing in common but an active sex life, and decide to break up. About a week later, they realize that they both like having sex, and start a no-strings-attached friends-with-benefits relationship. A month or so later, Daniel takes an internship on the other side of the country. Since Bob has a lot of free time (due to being single) and Cathy has a lot of free time (due to her boyfriend being across the country), Bob and Cathy start hanging out, watching movies or sports games, but staying platonic. Alice and Bob eventually decide that the FWB deal was fun, but it’s time to see other people. Alice starts a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with a guy who’s name is not important here; Bob starts a FWB relationship with a girl who’s name is not important here.

About a month later, Cathy confesses something to Bob: She’s not happy with Daniel. He’s been selfish and disrespectful to her in addition to having a morality stance that is not ok with having sex or going down on his girlfriend, but is ok with her going down on him :dubious: . Cathy also confesses that she has feelings for Bob and would rather be dating him. (She confesses this by planting one on him). Bob admits he likes Cathy as well, but he’s not going to help someone cheat on her boyfriend. About a week later, Cathy dumps Daniel by phone. Seeing the writing on the wall, Bob ends his FWB relationship and starts dating Cathy.

Even after all the dating shifts, Bob and Cathy are both still invited to Alice’s parties - they show up and everyone has a good time. After about six months, Bob proposes marriage to Cathy, and Cathy accepts. At this point, their invitations to the parties cease and the guest list has gone from “invite whoever” to “invitations must be approved in advance by Alice”.

Cathy is devastated; the time she sees her friends is at these parties. She feels that Alice is just being jealous that she can’t have Bob; therefore her friends should punish Alice by not going to her parties. Bob is more ambivalent; they are Alice’s parties after all, and she can invite or not invite whoever she wants. Cathy is particularly mad at Ernesto; he enjoys the parties and keeps going to them despite knowing Cathy’s objections; Cathy feels like Ernesto has stabbed her in the back.

End Situation: Alice continues her parties and everyone (except Bob and Cathy) continue going. Cathy and Ernesto eventually stop being friends over the issue. When Alice’s unnamed new beau and her break up, he ceases getting party invites as well. Bob and Cathy eventually get married and get a new set of friends. Bob would be fine seeing Alice or Ernesto but doesn’t because he knows it would make Cathy unhappy. Daniel moves to another state and becomes a functional alcoholic and slutpuppy.

The question: Who, if anyone, is the biggest jerk in this situation? Poll to come.

So, to boil all that down, Alice is upset that her ex married her friend Cathy and stops inviting them to her parties, and Cathy is upset at mutual friend Ernesto because he keeps going to the parties. Is that basically it?

Given the information we’re provided:

  1. Ernesto is in a hopeless, unfair situation where he must choose between two feuding friends.

  2. Alice is kind of a vindictive bitch.

  3. Cathy is kind of a possessive bitch if she thinks she can tell Ernesto his business.

  4. Daniel is a non-issue.

So, I’d say it’s a tie between Alice and Cathy.

I vote for Cathy. She can host her own parties, after all, and invite whomever she chooses. She’s acting like a kid who tells another one, “You can’t be friends with (blank) and me. You have to choose.”

So is Alice just being a bitch? Or is he just trying to avoid awkward situations by inviting the wrong group of people?

Well, who knows what Alices internal thoughts are. That said, I don’t think it’s a horrible thing to NOT invite certain people because it might make things weird at said party.

So, I agree with Alices actions. I can’t say I agree with her reasoning behind those actions as I don’t know Alice nor do I know her internal thinking. The optimist in me wants to give her benifit of the doubt though.

Cathy only sees her friends at Alice’s parties? They must be really close friends…

Daniel is the biggest jerk for his idea that God loves blowjobs but thou shalt not yodel in the canyon.

I’d say the OP in that the post is so slanted against Daniel that it skews any perception of fairness in the telling of the tale.

I don’t think it’s wrong for Alice to no longer extend invitations to Bob and Cathy. Isn’t it rather typical to cut off close ties to one’s ex, or at least exercise that option without it implying any maliciousness?

Cathy is wrong to take this personally and she’s wrong to make demands of Ernesto.

Bob and Daniel are totally innocent.

Ernesto isn’t doing anything wrong. He shouldn’t have to choose between friends. He would only be in the wrong if he cut out Bob and Cathy but he hasn’t.

Alice is probably being a little lame but it’s her house and her parties and she shouldn’t have to feel awkward in those situations.

Cathy is legitimately upset to be shut out but her demanding that Ernesto make a choice is the biggest sin in the whole story.

So, my vote is for Cathy.

I don’t see anything unfair about it. The OP doesn’t like Daniel, and neither does anyone else. It doesn’t really matter though. Daniel’s really marginal to the story.

As they are shown in the OP I have a possibly irrational dislike of all involved.

When people break up, it’s perfectly normal to cease inviting each other to parties. It doesn’t matter whether you were married or FWB, etc. Most of the time it doesn’t even matter whether the breakup was amicable or not, people just naturally distance themselves from former lovers. Frankly, being left off the guest list is something that I would expect were I to hook up with Ms. Party Thrower’s ex.

It’s also perfectly normal for new couples to find new friends vs hanging out with their old friends, especially if the old group hang out with the ex. If they really wanted to see their Ernesto, et al, C&B could have started throwing parties of their own. But, they probably analyzed the situation and decided that Alice’s snubbing was always going to be a thorn in their side, and opted to move on. Discovering new places and new friends is part of the fun of being a new couple.

Ernesto did nothing wrong, but it’s also not unusual for people to distance themselves from close friends of their exes.

Daniel has issues with sex, but that doesn’t make him a jerk.

Daniel sounds like a jerk in general, nothing to do with the actual events.

Cathy is a jerk for being mad at Ernesto. Just because Cathy isn’t part of Alice’s circle any more doesn’t give her the right to tell Ernesto to stop being friends with Alice.

But…a guy that won’t have sex or go down on his girl, but expects his girl to go down on him, that trumps Cathy’s schoolgirl tizzies.

I’m a bit surprised Daniel is getting the focus that he is, because like DCnDC and Acsenray I thought he was fairly marginal to the story. But, part of the appeal of the dope is seeing other people’s views.

As far as FrankJBN’s concern about slant: this is a tale that is probably impossible to tell without bias. I did my best to present it warts and all. I’m curious what makes the post seemed slanted against Daniel more so than any of the other named characters.

To PunditLisa and you with the face: Does Alice continuing to invite Bob and Cathy to the parties post-dating but pre-engagement have any affect on your stance? I agree it’s pretty normal for people that break up to distance themselves from each other, including ceasing going to the same parties. I thought the twist that everyone HAD been going to the same parties post-breakup was interesting but nobody seems to have commented on it.

I agree and wouldn’t call it irrational.

Look, love, emotions, relationships, breakups, etc., are tricky and their results are unpredictable. Maybe it was only at the point that Bob and Cathy got married that Alice finally faced up to the fact that she was being rejected and it was really, finally over. That’s natural. Alice’s cutting them out of the parties is unfortunate, but it really shouldn’t be a surprise.

Cathy should grow up and start throwing her own parties.

And, yes, musical chair sexual relationships can break up groups of friends. It happens.

That’s the “Alice being bitchy” part for me. Apparently she was cool with Bob and Cathy while they were just dating, but as soon as they’re getting married Alice decides to cut them out? That’s some serious When Harry Met Sally “He didn’t want to marry me!” -type shit that rubs me the wrong way. Fuck Alice.

Cathy should just throw her own parties and invite the friends she wants to invite. She also had no business continuing a relationship with Daniel if their sexual values were not compatible. While I think Daniel is a bit of a jerk for expecting sexual pleasure but refusing to give it, Cathy is the bigger jerk for dating him for a couple of years. For what, in hopes that he’d change his position? Alice, Bob, and Ernesto haven’t really done anything wrong or terribly hurtful to anyone. Alice is free to stop throwing parties whenever she wants and the invitation by approval policy may have been to counter all the junior high school drama that is caused by Cathy.

We should give Cathy a 500-yard head start, then chase her down with torches and pitchforks.

This is unfair. It can take a while to come to the realization that your relationship isn’t working out. And often that realization only comes when you meet someone who is more compatible. It’s natural.

Daniel is a douche. Bob and Ernesto are fine. And I wouldn’t want to be friends with either Alice or Cathy. Alice because it sounds like she gives into her insecurities and plays head games (“You’re okay as long as you’re just dating, but now that you’re engaged, NOOO way!”), and Cathy, because she’s displaying histrionics. If she was really as close to her friends as she claimed, she’d throw her own damn parties or find a way to see everyone outside of parties. And it’s never okay to tell other people what to do.

Nobody is really being much of a jerk, but Cathy is an idiot if she’s upset that her husband’s ex isn’t inviting them to parties anymore. Alice tried to act like it didnt matter for a few parties, but then decided to behave like every other human being on the planet. Ex boyfriends get dropped from the invite list. That’s just how it is.

It’s not Alice’s fault that Cathy doesn’t see her friends. That’s almost an insane attitude.

ETA: I forgot about Ernesto. Cathy is being a huge jerk to him.