Why are there so many sexless marriages if women love sex just as much as men?

In My Humble Opinion
201

One thing that is getting lost in the thread is why there are sexless marriages. Unless you’ve been in a multi-year, monogamous relationship, you’re not going to understand how the sexual relationship changes after 4, 5, 10, 20 years. The sexual habits and desires of dating people aren’t necessarily going to correspond to that of people in long relationships.

During the first 1-2 years of the relationship your brain is flooded with love hormones. The way you act sexually when under the effect of those hormones is different than after they fade away. It’s when they’re gone that you find your true, unfiltered, sexual desire.

I’d venture to guess that unless you’ve been in a 4+ year relationship, you don’t really know your own true level of desire. You’ve only been in a pursuing or pursued mode. That will effect how much sex you desire. But once that phase is gone and you’re in a secure, long lasting, monogamous relationship, your desire for sex will change.

My point is that, in general, men have a more unrelenting desire for sex. It is like being hungry. Your level of hunger may change, but it’s a desire that cannot be ignored. After a while you’ll do just about anything to get that desire met. So even if their desire for sex goes down over time in the relationship, it never goes away. It’s like being able to go longer between meals but the need to eat never goes away, and the longer it is denied the stronger the need gets.

Women, in general, don’t seem to have the same unrelenting desire in a long lasting relationship. Their desire for sex might be more comparable to getting a massage. There are times when she really feels like a massage, but it’s totally not an issue if it’s months between massages. A massage may be used to enhance something in her life (sore muscles, need to relax, socialize with friends, etc). But it’s not like she goes crazy if she hasn’t had a massage in two weeks.

202

That completely fits with what I’ve seen in meatspace and read on other messageboards. Make sure you turn off the computer and the videogames and any other electronic whosits–they can all be nearly insurmountable obstacles to getting any.

On the wedding-planning board I used to hang out on when it was relevant to my life, threads bemoaning lack of sex were insanely common, and would run into several pages each time…and it wasn’t the same people having the same conversation over and over. You’d see about 30% carryover of the same folks, but the other 70% were different each time. The common thread running through almost all the stories was that they couldn’t compete with the goddamn gadgets. Most of the women in those threads had already given up offering sex and had gotten gadgets of their own, which struck me as sad given that these people weren’t even married yet.

What really seemed pitiful to me, though, was the ones who resorted to subterfuge to get laid. One woman said she’d tried various ways of phrasing it, from “wanna go upstairs?” to “I’m horny as hell, fuck me now” without her fiancee even glancing up from the screen. But if she yelled “Hey, want some ice cream?” he was there in 2 seconds flat, and then she could sometimes worm her way into his pants while he was eating his ice cream. There’s just something depressing about the hierarchy of desires going ice cream>video game>>sex with you. I don’t think my ego could take it.

203

I’m not sure why you think the thread is not on track. Most of the posts in the thread have been about sexless marriages, and many of the marriages discussed are or were many-year marriages.

204

Just because there were lots of examples given from people or women they know who have only been dating/single. The fact that someone who has only had relationships less than 2 years wants lots of sex is almost irrelevant to the situation of someone in a 10 year relationship. So when someone says they know a women who has gang bangs at an adult store, it’s doesn’t really address this situation.

I’ve seen studies that say 10-20% of marriage are classified as sexless (< 10 times per year). But what I haven’t seen is of those marriages, is it the man or women who would actually want it to be improved? That is, of the sexless marriages, do the 80% of the men want more sex? Popular culture would certainly seem to indicate it was something like that.

But those are just the sexless marriages by definition. There’s probably a whole different category for marriages which would be classified as sexless if one partner didn’t do all the work. That’s certainly the case for my marriage. If I did nothing, we would have sex once per month. And it would be tightly tied to ovulation. My wife only initiates one time 7-10 days after her cycle is over. So if I did nothing, we would have sex about once per month. My wife is pretty nice in that she goes along with it if I initiate, but I can tell she’d be just as happy to not do it. So really I only get good sex once per month when she’s in the mood. As a result, I really don’t initiate anymore.

205

I see what you mean. But I think some of the examples you’re referring to were people coming in to talk about side conversations that were going on, e.g., do women care about penis size, what makes a lover’s technique bad, and what happens to your sex life after the initial rush is over, which is something that I do think you get some sense of in a monogamous relationship that lasts more than a year (although this is not the same as marriage, it’s at least relevant to the discussion.) I guess the thread is a bit disjointed because there are a lot of different conversations going on simultaneously, but the discussion of sexless marriage is there.

Your points about who initiates sex and when, and who tries to fix sexual problems, are interesting. As you probably know, you aren’t the only one to raise them. In the last couple of pages, there have been several anecdotes from women in sexless marriages who did try to improve the situation (I was one who described this; I can think of at least 2 other women who also said this). So sometimes it is the wife, but I’m not saying that’s the norm.

206

Based on all the input from this thread here’s my WAG of what’s going on:

[ul]
[li]The sexual skills of the average male, and the receptivity of the average female to such skills, are such that[/li][ol]
[li]When sexual hormones are flooding the female body (e.g. beginning of relationship, the right time of the month, etc) the skills are good enough to ensure a pleasurable sexual experience for the female.[/li][li]When hormones are not flooding the female body, these average skills are usually insufficient for a pleasurable sexual experience for the female.[/li][LIST]
[li]In some cases of sexual compatibility between the man and woman and some cases of men with above-average skills the above does not hold, but it is not the norm[/li][/ul][/ol]
[li]This state of affairs has the following results[/li][ol]
[li]After a long time into a relationship, the woman doesn’t want to have sex as much with her partner, because it is not as pleasurable as she would like.[/li][li]For some women this is OK, they assume this is the way things are, or are simply satisfied with the rate of sex, etc [/li][ul]
[li]This may have been more the case in old societies where there were no magazines that talked about the glorious orgasms that other women are having, and where it was taboo for people to talk about such issues and compare notes.[/li][/ul]
[li]For many women this is NOT OK, they do want more sex, just not with the guy they are with. In some (most?) cases resentment starts to build from the lack of sexual satisfaction. [/li][ul]
[li]They assume that they can get better sex from a man who is more skilled in bed, or from a situation (like an affair or a new relationship) that gets the hormones flowing again. [/li][/ul]
[/ol]
[li]The possible reasons, from an evolutionary standpoint, for the above state of affairs is that is increases the likelihood that both the male and female will have sex outside the relationship[ul][/li][li]She’s unfulfilled sexually, so she looks elsewhere.[/li][li]He’s not getting any from his wife, so he looks elsewhere[/li][/ul]
[li] This is good for genetic diversity, while ensuring that any kids born will be raised in a stable pair bond. Win-win for evolution, but for people who don’t want to cheat, it sucks.[/li]
[li]Also, the above state of affairs explains the different perceptions on female sexuality between the sexes[/li][ol]
[li]From a man’s point of view: “We had tons of sex when we met, and we still have great sex when she’s in the mood for it, so it must not be me, it must be her hormones, since my technique is the same whether she’s in the mood or not. Her sex drive must not be as high as mine is.” [/li][li]From a woman’s point of view: “His technique sucks, and it takes the periodic increase in hormones to get me horny enough to enjoy sex with him. If I had a man who was better at sex I could enjoy sex more frequently, which is what I truly want”[/li][/ol]
[/LIST]

Complete overgeneralization, of course.

207

I’m starting to wonder how many people have me on ignore and how many are just stuck on this notion that it’s always the woman who has the low sex drive / hangup /whatever.

“Women’s sex drive is, in average, lower than that of men” does not equal “in every male/female pair, the woman’s sex drive will be lower than that of the man.”

208

We don’t have a TV in the bedroom. If you want more sex, get it out of there.
We are the only couple I know that doesn’t have a TV in the bedroom. We are also the only couple I know that has as much sex on a regular basis. I think the two are directly correlated.

209

Well, you have to keep in mind that men tend to have a somewhat vested interest in protecting their notion that lack of sex is always and completely the woman’s fault, and that it’s not an indication that they’re bad or stupid or wrong. It’s just that nobody is ever the villain in their own story, and that’s just plain old human nature.

I think it’s what’s also at the heart of how differently it’s perceived when men refuse sex vs when women do so. I have never, ever, in my life heard anyone talk about a man “withholding” sex, even when he’s the one constantly refusing. But it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot when talking about women and their sexual habits. There’s this sort of unspoken assumption that if a guy isn’t in the mood, it’s for some perfectly valid, understandable reason, but if a woman isn’t in the mood, it’s because she’s being petty and small-minded and “punishing” her partner. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s evidence of misogyny per se, because it’s rooted in perfectly normal human psychology, but it is a hell of a double standard and something I think we should work to move past.

Sadly, I suspect that difference in perception is in many cases a contributing factor to the sort of vicious circle filmore describes. I’ve known many, many women who get shot down when trying to initiate because the game’s on or there’s a Mafia war to wage or whatever. And then, later, the guy gets in the mood and by then she’s totally out of the mood and mentally/physically engaged in something else–and he gets whiny when she says no. When men talk about their sex lives, the former refusal just sort of gets edited out of their memories, and they perceive the situation as them constantly having to initiate and having to do all the work. So they get fed up and stop initiating. Meanwhile, the woman has gotten sick of being turned down and also stops initiating as often, reinforcing the man’s perception that he’s the one having to do all the work.

(The differing perception thing also works the other way round, of course: the woman in the above situation sees his refusal as “apparently, blowing up virtual aliens is more fun than fucking me” and her own as “I am not a machine to be turned on and off at His Majesty’s whim; he can go fuck himself if he’s so horny.” Likewise, the whole tv/computer/video game trumping sex thing tends to make her think she’ll be damned if she’s going to beg someone to fuck her, so she stops trying, and…well, you know the rest of that story.)

Frankly, the whole thing is just a complete damn mess, and it’s a wonder any couple ever has sex at all.

210

That was a pretty charged post. I think what you’re describing is more withholding sex. That is, one partner deliberately denying the other sex in order to gain power or control. I doubt that’s the case in most sexless marriages. I can’t see how that strategy would work year after year. Perhaps temporarily, but I can’t see someone supressing their own sexuality for years in order to prove some point. I think the more common situation is that the other person is not in the mood and not interested in getting in the mood.

You brought up my situation, but I wouldn’t classify that as withholding. I’m just not initiating. I am more than happy to join in when my wife is in the mood, but I feel awkward trying to convince her to get in the mood when I can tell her preference is to not do it. I have a fantastic wife that will go along with me because she loves me and wants to make me happy, but the situation is that I’m trying to convince her to do something she would rather not do. Because I want to respect her feelings, I don’t initiate all that often.

I’d have no problem initiating if I felt she wanted it. If I felt she was like “ooo… I was wondering when he’d do that” I’d initiate all the time. But the feeling is more like “oh, you’re in the mood. Ok. Well, get my engine going and then you can get busy.”

This thread has concentrated on women with low drives because that’s the title of this thread. Of course there are marriages where the man has the lower drive, but that’s for a different thread. The reasons a man doesn’t want sex will likely be very different from that of a woman.

211

:confused:

Neither the title of the thread talks about women with low drives, and neither have we had a lack of high-sex-drive women post their experiences in this thread.

212

Out of curiosity, how many men and women identify, at least to a degree, with the generalization of their own gender’s attitude made above?

213

There is nothing I can find in this post that I disagree with.

214

I’m wondering if I’m like most women in that I need to feel attractive in order to want sex.

I was having this conversation with my husband and he laughed and said, ‘‘I don’t understand why you think feeling attractive is a prerequisite for having sex. The last thing I’m thinking about is how I look.’’ I don’t know if most men think that way or not, or even if other women do. I just know that my self-image plays a huge role in whether or not I’m in the mood. My husband thinks I’m drop-dead gorgeous, but if I don’t feel that way, nothing’s going to happen.

I was also thinking of how this self-image thing ties into obesity. Women are also more likely to be overweight than men, therefore, possibly, they might also be more likely to have a low body-image.

So I’ve suggested a number of factors here:

  1. sexual trauma is more prevalent in women
  2. obesity is more prevalent in women
  3. women have more problems with self-esteem/body image
  4. depression is more prevalent among women

I realize everyone just wants to talk about what manipulative shrews women are (as usual), but I had to try.

215

[bolding mine]
Everyone? Really? Is that what you’re getting from all the posts from guys: that women are manipulative shrews?

216

Just curious…does she seem to enjoy it once you guys have gotten started? If so, I wouldn’t worry about it. IANIAM, but I’m often tired or stressed out by work and not feeling horny at all, but I’ll still do it with my girlfriend not only because I know she enjoys it, but because I know I’ll enjoy it once we get started.

217

Olives,
I hope you don’t feel like your voice isn’t being heard here. I’m a woman and I’ve followed this thread with great interest because I dealt with a sexless marriage for many years. A number of different women with different viewpoints have posted in this thread. While there have been a few posts here regarding women’s sexuality that I felt were insulting or misinformed, I think for the most part this thread has addressed issues relevant to marriage and married sex with more nuance than you’re suggesting. (That said, I haven’t followed many other threads at the Dope touching on women’s sexuality or other issues, so I have no idea what a typical Doper stance on women’s issues would be like.)

I agree with the factors you’ve listed as being more likely to affect women than men. For me, how I’m feeling about my looks on a particular day definitely affects how sexy I feel. I’ve never discussed it with a male partner, but now that you mention it, it does seem that my male partners, including my ex-husband and my current partner, do not seem to have the same sensitivity. Based on my own experience, I would add that male depression can also be a factor that affects a man’s libido (IMO, this may be an overlooked factor, particularly for cases in which a couple has already started to have a sexual “problem” of some sort).

218

The real crime is this: women carry more body fat…it’s a biological fact of nature. Women are geared for creating, cooking, and nurturing children. There’s nothing WRONG with carrying more fat around. It’s a part of the machinery. It provides the reserves to propagate the species.

The act of childbirth really takes a toll on a woman’s body. Changes in bone structure, stretch marks, changes in breast structure. It’s exceptionally rare that a woman ‘goes through the process’ and is not changed.

So, just for doing what you’re biologically meant to do, You end up having esteem and body image issues. How fucked up is that?

It doesn’t help that society is overly sexualized like it is. That if you don’t meat some un-attainable goal, you’re not worthy. (And 99.99999% of the population can’t possibly meet that image.)

219

[quote=“Polerius, post:206, topic:523502”]

[ol]
[li]From a man’s point of view: “We had tons of sex when we met, and we still have great sex when she’s in the mood for it, so it must not be me, it must be her hormones, since my technique is the same whether she’s in the mood or not. Her sex drive must not be as high as mine is.” [/li][li]From a woman’s point of view: “His technique sucks, and it takes the periodic increase in hormones to get me horny enough to enjoy sex with him. If I had a man who was better at sex I could enjoy sex more frequently, which is what I truly want”[/ol][/li][/QUOTE]

I think you’re using some pretty loaded words: “technique sucks” is way too negative and too strong, IMO. So I would suggest the following (knowing that what I’m about to say would not apply to every person or every situation…)

  1. he could be more willing to do certain things that she would like [to be graphic: oral, manual stimulation, using a vibrator, shallow penetration, hitting the G spot, etc.]
  2. he could be more patient to wait for her to come, or, less driven by his own orgasm
  3. does he remember that for some women PIV might be more fun for her if she’s had an orgasm first (of course, women can come several times in a row)
220

A lot of the “your/my technique sucks” and poor communication issues about wants and needs would seem to stem from the piss-poor sex education that is the standard in much of the western world. If the only way you are ever going to learn about what makes the other sex feel good is to have sex with them and get feedback, you’re going to go through a lot of trial and error, which will result in a lot of bad sex, which will put off your partner from wanting to continue to practice.

The Madona/Whore (and Loser/Player) binaries we’ve got going in this culture don’t help in that regard, since it makes it more difficult to accept either the extended learning time with one’s partner required, or the method by which experience would have been gained before meeting said partner.