Ok, I think I get what you are saying. It seems like many here are quick to judge without giving you the credit for the good you did. In fact, it’s reasonable to assume the good heavily outweighs the bad. Does that sound about right?
Because I would agree that it sounds like you did the best you could. What I can’t agree with is that you would not change a single aspect.
Take the first encounter with said douche. He asks you, “what the fuck you looking at?” And you respond, “whatever the fuck I want, chief.” I’m sorry but this the most painstakingly predictable response possible. This in no way is meant to defuse the situation. Instead, you choose to meet force with force.
I pointed this out before and you consider it a “rookie mistake.” I still don’t see it that way. I don’t see how the situation described in your OP was that volatile. This was the very first exchange with the douche. There was no taunting or threats beforehand. Instead, it was an aggressive outburst on his part and he got to you and made you lose your cool.
Like you said before, you were scanning the television sets. You could have easily said, “watching the game.” This would have totally thrown him off in an embarrassing way. Your presence was all that was necessary, IMHO. Your aggressive retaliation only validated his anger and escalated the situation.
I know because I’ve been in this situation many times in the past. The golden rule is to always walk away if at all possible. I mean that in a literal as well as in a metaphorical sense.
And then, what? The staff come over and stand in front of the guy? If the guy is being a problem already, sure, the bouncers throw him out. But if not, all that does is escalate things. And you don’t want that, do you?
And he didn’t make a scene or escalate things.
He looked at the douche, and then the douche challenged him with “what you looking at?” and yelling threats. Then, when he got the chance, he DID talk to the bouncer, and the douche’s friend, and tried to calm things down.
I know you didn’t say she’d be raped in the bar. I said just that.
But she was in no danger of being raped at all. Even if you had quietly left the bar without confronting the guy, it’s not like you were going to leave Barfly alone outside, standing around, waiting for Douche to grab her. If you were, it had nothing to do with what you did, or were prepared to do, in the bar. So bringing up rape was dumb.
Yes, he did. He didn’t start the shit, but his aggressive retaliation did escalate things and cause a scene. How would you describe his response, “whatever the fuck I want chief”? Do you think there could have been a better choice of words at that point or do you think this was the best and most reasonable response possible?
Chessic, respectfully, what did you think was going to happen.
It reads like, from their perspective, you escalated a situation that barfly had in hand and, I suspect, they feel like you did it to show off.
I know in male fantasies, the women always swoon, squeeze they guy’s muscles, or try to impale themselves on the guy’s schlong after something like this, but in real life, most women don’t behave like that.
Eh. I’m in DC - and here, at least, plenty of perfectly normal bars will have a bouncer at the door. Might not be a terribly formidable bouncer, in a low-key bar, but there will very often be someone there to control access at the door, check ID, etc.
Chessic, the title of your post is “You won’t be raped tonight”, as if you played a role in ensuring that didn’t happen. Because there was virtually NO chance of that happening anyway, it’s an odd choice if words… to say the least. You had many choices in how you could have handled the situation, and you chose the most aggressive. If I were your wife, or the oh-so-flatteringly titled barfly, I would have been annoyed as well. If you’d really had the best of intentions (and perhaps you did, but your behavior leaves me skeptical), why not choose a more discreet option, so as not to embarrass your friends – not to mention, leave an out for the other guys? Barfly and roommate didn’t ask for your help; likely because they sensed that they were in no danger and probably because they’re accustomed to handling unwanted attention. The underlying premise of what you’re saying seems to be that they were in need if your protection, and you were all butt hurt that they weren’t grateful for it.
I’m not even sure why I’m bothering with this follow up; clearly, you’re feeling defensive and nothing I say will change your mind. But I’m curious: if your wife had said, no … I’m ready to leave now; our friends can handle themselves" … What would your response have been?
You see, I have to be who I am, and that is someone who doesn’t turn the other cheek. Someone who knows that to stand by doing nothing allows the petty tyrants of this world to run roughshod over the freedoms that make our very lives worth living. And this relic of the depression thought nobody was going to call her on her attempt to drag a good checkout line into a very bad place.
The thing she didn’t count on was me- someone with the “male part” so deep in him that the Wife and I often debated whether nature or nurture was to blame for the stands I chose to take. Worse still for her, my buddy Marine was with me- we shared the same credo, but he was a lot less likely than me to allow the standard social niceties to temper his response…
He didn’t start it, I meant. Yes, I agree that saying “I’ll look at whatever I want” was an escalation. But I don’t think he went into the situation wanting to escalate it. It was a reaction to picking a fight. It wasn’t smart, but it’s not quite the same thing as if he had been sitting there quietly, anticipating trouble, and then spoke first.
At some point, you have to give the guy the right to stand up for himself and not take verbal abuse.
Yeah, depends on the clientele and the night, and whether the bar/restaurant checks IDs at the door or inside. And sometimes there are bouncers inside, or staff who are the designated bouncers when there is trouble. You can tell what kind of place you’re going into if there’s a bouncer outside, and by his size. If there’s a metal detector too, you probably need to find a different place.
(Don’t) Rape Me
Hide Your Wife, Hide Your Kids
I’ll Be There (Providing Security)
R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Not R-A-P-E
The Night the Rapists Went Out in Georgia
Baby, there are Rapists Outside
Shouldn’t I Walk You Home?
No, Thanks, I’ll Buy my Own Drink
“…dazed, barely conscious, blood dripping from my nose, I could just make out the fluorescent lights on the ceiling as I lay on the ground. I had stirred up a hornets nest and now my next move was survival. The little old lady had Marine buddy in a headlock and looked to be preparing a vicious groin punch. I surveyed my surroundings, looking for any advantage, anyone or anything that might be able to help me…”