You won't be raped tonight...you're fucking welcome, bitch.

The BBQ Pit
121

Notice how Chessic emphasizes the danger he put himself into? He wants kudos for almost being in a violent confrontation. Actually getting rid of the guy (which is what the bartender did) is of much lesser importance to him that his willingness to beat someone (or get beaten) on behalf of the woman. If the bartender had been summoned just as soon as the guy started being a nuisance, danger would have been a non fucking issue. But of course, this action isn’t as badass as staring someone down and making threats about going outside all macho like.

Barfly and Wife were right to roll their eyes at all of this. Maybe Chessic would have an easier time seeing her point if the guy had ended up killing him.

122

I wonder why you didn’t respond to this:

123

I keep reading it as “Barfy.”

124

I’ll make sure to remember that sage advice if I’m ever in a situation like this again.

On second thoughts, I don’t think I will. So I guess I’m a testosterone-fueled Internet tough guy, too, just like the OP.

125

You mean the posts where he looks forward to the fateful day when women who have failed to show him proper respect will be assaulted?

This is how he reacts to a friend who “mock[ed] us for almost getting in a fight” and a Doper who dared to disagree with him in the Pit. Since he later described posting on the Internet as “about a 1.5 on the seriousness scale”, it appears that even extremely minor disrespect from women makes them deserving of sexual assault in his book. Not that he’d be the one to do it, perish the thought! He’s just going to bide his time and wait for some less noble man to dole out the punishment that he’s imagined for the disrespectful bitches of the world.

I’ll mention here that I, and probably most women, have been in situations where I thought “Is this creep going to follow me?” and feared what might happen if the answer proved to be “yes”. In these situations I would have appreciated it if someone I trusted had offered to walk me to my car, wait with me until my cab or bus arrived, etc. But I can’t say I ever found myself thinking “If only some brave man would stare menacingly at this creep for me!”

The OP describes the evening as a success because “Marine and I put ourselves in harm’s way, and all three women will get home safely tonight”, but it wasn’t necessary for the men to put themselves in harm’s way in order to get the three women home safely. It sounds like this was what the wife and friend were upset about – the prospect of unnecessary violence. There may be situations where a macho standoff with the creep is really the best option, but there were plenty of alternatives in this case. Aside from offering to walk the women to their cars, etc., they could have talked to the bartender or the bouncer or the creep’s friend as soon as they realized the creep wasn’t just going to leave the women alone.

126

I only really have a problem with OP’s rhetoric, not his actions. I’ll forgive his original post on that mark just because he was drunk, but he’s mostly reinforced it with later posts. Talking about the “male part” makes you sound lame, and it is seriously unlikely anyone was in danger of getting raped at that point in the evening.

That being said, the only actions OP took, were to wait by the bar where he had previously been waiting. He didn’t do anything, before the aggressor confronted him verbally–so OP really didn’t start anything. As an extremely grizzled veteran of bars, I can tell you that in 999/1000 times a person confronting someone with the phrase “What are you looking at?” Is an asshole and is the one who is starting the fight. The guy being accosted is almost never the one starting anything.

Once someone like that confronts you it’s entirely valid to try to brush him back, because sometimes just backing off just tells him he can push you even more to try and show off for whoever he’s showing off for–in the real world you don’t always have the option to just walk away and I’ve seen this play out dozens of times.

As for people who said he should have asked the woman if she needed help, that’s actually more intrusive than what he did. For one, the aggressor was right next to her talking to her, if he had interceded in their conversation to ask her anything that would have immediately started the shouting match and possibly lead to an altercation. Additionally, it’s also denying the woman the ability to talk through it on her own–something he still allowed for by simply remaining at his bar stool where he had been all night.

But yeah, drop all the weird stuff about “being a man” and rape and all you did was hang around to make sure nothing went south, nothing wrong with that.

127

You don’t see the difference between you helping someone who was asking for help and suggesting That the OP double check that his help was needed?

128

I think that’s where a lot of the mocking is coming from. He acts like there was some great act of heroism, repeatedly referencing the alleged “danger” he put himself in. Dude, some guy was hitting on chicks in a bar, then Chessic complained to the bouncer about it. Where is all this silliness about having to be the man and rescuing damsels in distress coming from? These women really didn’t need to be grateful for anything, yet he’s all pissy that they didn’t thank him for jumping in the line of fire, preventing their impending rape. It’s like, brah, get over yourself.

129

Again, if there is a risk of someone getting raped, the right thing to do is get the hell out of there. You get in a car or a cab and get to a safe place, away from the “violent and dangerous” person. If need be, you find a bouncer or police officer to keep an eye out while you get to someplace secure.

Why would you even hang around for a moment longer after a situation has turned potentially dangerous? To finish your beer? To soak up the atmosphere? To make some kind of point? If you were in a dark alley way and you thought some guy was going to mug you, would you start a confrontation with him, or would you leave the alley way? If you are in a gas station parking lot and a guy starts robbing the place, would you go in and buy your Slurpee or would you decide to drive away? If a woman’s husband starts beating her, should she try to reason him out of it, or should she get her ass to a shelter?

In actually dangerous situations, making a safe exit is always a better choice than escalating things.

130

I know this is a tangent and everyone else has moved on, but I would truly like to understand how your brain operates.

Did you really think that because you don’t like bars that most people don’t?

131

Put it this way:

You have a flat tire. Oh shit. You pull off, get out of the car, and go around to the back to get out your jack. But your mechanic friend sees you, swoops in, and starts to fix it. He does it in a fancy-smancy expert way that you couldn’t have done, but that is also, frankly, a little showboat-y, and you are worried for a second that instead of changing your tire, he might, in fact, set the car on fire. But he avoid that and gets the whole thing worked out. You’re grateful, in the sense that you realize you didn’t have to get your pants dirty, but also a little annoyed, because your heart was in your throat there for those few minutes when you thought he was going to set your car on fire.

After it’s over, he turns to you and say “Lucky I came by, eh? You would have had a long walk home!”

So what are you supposed to say? His assumption that you couldn’t have handled it is kind of insulting, but you can’t deny that he did help. If you say “oh yeah, you saved my ass”, you kind of feel like you are joining him in insulting your own competence–you can’t change a tire?–and approving of his crazy showboat technique, which you don’t. You REALLY don’t want to encourage him to do that again. But you don’t want to take him to task for it, because he really didn’t have to stop at all, and you appreciate the thought, if not the action.

132

There is an aspect of the situation that you’re perhaps not considering, and that is the other person in the conflict.

I’ll tell you a story that, although it isn’t quite the same situation (mainly because I was asked for help), still has bearing on the topic.

I worked as a bouncer for a while at a place whose main bartender, “Danae,” was female (and she also worked as a bouncer there on live music night, when I wasn’t available). Danae was tough and well experienced in dealing with drunk guys, but she was ALSO little and blonde and didn’t LOOK tough.

One time I came in on my day off to pick up my paycheck. There were two guys at the bar who were drunk (and must have come in that way, because she was really strict about not over-serving people), she was telling them they couldn’t have another drink, and they were NOT taking no for an answer. She was in the middle of telling them to get the hell out, and I could tell from the volume and tone that it wasn’t the first time she’d said it. They weren’t budging, were in fact making snide remarks about how much they looked forward to her grabbing them to throw them out, etc.

Danae caught sight of me and said, “Hey Troy! These guys are being assholes and I told them to get out.” Knowing my part to play (and yes, I understand the OP’s characterization of it as a piece of theater, even if some of you don’t seem to), I came over, loomed over them both from behind, and said in a voice even deeper and growlier than my usual hot-fudge baritone, “Then what the hell are they still doin’ in here?”

They turned around, looked at me eye-to-sternum, looked up to where MY eyes were, and slinked right out.

Here’s my point: Danae and the OP understand what some of you don’t seem to, which is that even though a woman may be PERFECTLY capable of taking care of herself, there are certain MEN who think they don’t have to listen to a woman or take her seriously, and will only respond to… yes… testosterone. If Danae had had to deal with those douchebags herself, I guarantee you they would have wound up just as thrown out as they were by me, but it would have been a much bigger hassle and might have gotten violent, because there ARE self-important cocknozzles who think women aren’t entitled to say no to what they want.

And I’ll tell you what Danae DIDN’T do afterward: she didn’t say, “You men are a bunch of chest-beating gorillas.” She said, “THOSE GUYS were assholes - THANKS, man.”

And I said, “No biggie – I was just saving them from YOU.”

133

Danae asked for your help. Why woud she then berate you for helping?

134

I can agree with most of what you said except for this part. Mr. Sense could have left it at “excuse me” and then remained silent or laughed it off. Or he could have said, “Hey calm down buddy.” Instead, he chose to escalate the situation which is pretty typical.

It seems that the perpetrator in this story was aggressive, but not overtly violent. I could be wrong and im not trying to make excuses. I’m simply trying to analyze what would be the best actions to take in order to end the encounter peacefully. What Chessic Sense did was escalate the situation and took it out of the womens hands.

Sure, you may not always have any other option, but I don’t believe this was one of those cases. I think it could have been handled much better in many different ways.

Chessic Sense, it’s not about “backing down” as much as it is not playing some stupid persons game. I’m hardly one to talk because I’ve done the same stupid shit before, but it does help to admit when you might be wrong and learn from it.

135

I did say the situation wasn’t exactly the same. The point I was trying to illustrate was that even though Danae was actually much tougher than I was, I sent the right visual signal to back them off without a fight. Men (okay, SOME men) are, not gorillas, but dogs, especially when drunk and/or trying to score - and dogs respond to the alpha-male treatment easier than they respond to appeals to their civilized sides.

And I totally get the OP’s annoyance at being accused of trying to escalate things when he was actually trying to do the opposite. Sure, the guy probably wasn’t going to rape anyone there in the bar in front of a bunch of witnesses (although it has been known to happen), but is it so hard to imagine that something unpleasant could have happened in the parking lot?

136

You’ve never heard of people complaining about the way in which they were helped after they asked for it?

Irony thy name is.

137

Nobody ever asked for my help in that episode. I intruded without ever being asked. Quite contrary to the advice that I should

(bolding mine)
And I would probably have intervened in a situation like the OP was describing, except that I’d have a somewhat less aggressive demeanor and wouldn’t have called it “playing the male part” to my wife. But I’d probably intervened. Macho alpha male Internet tough guy, right?

138

Your original story.

The woman was seeking help and security wasn’t forthcoming. You then stepped in and helped in a situation in which she was clearly asking for help.

The parts you say you would leave out is what makes it a macho thing.

I wasn’t talking about the generalized idea of berating someone even when they asked for help but the specific story Chef Troy was relating. Why was it ironic?

139

It’s hard to imagine something unpleasant happening in the parking lot if all five members of Chessic Sense’s group had just walked out together rather than the men getting into a macho staring contest with the creep first. From the OP it sounds like the creep did not become agitated and begin threatening violence until after the macho staring contest occurred, so this did have the result of escalating the situation even if that was not Chessic Sense’s intent.

140

All this talk about waiting to be asked for help came about as an explanation for why someone might not be grateful. Certainly when a situation is so obviously a crisis no one would expect you to wait to be asked before offering assistance.

But in those grey areas when in your best judgement you step in to help when help wasn’t asked for, you run the risk that it might not be appreciated. Each person has to decide if that risk is worth it- sometimes it totally is. You might grab someone’s kid from running into the street and get yelled at for touching their kid or you might get smothered in “thank yous”.

In this scenario is serves as a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the women weren’t necessarily appreciative.