Because you imply that you cannot imagine any other response from Danae than the one described in the scenario when it is a trivial task. People, even friends, can be weird sometimes.
You can always second guess the behavior of ANY actor in a potentially dangerous situation.
That wasn’t meant to be implied at all.
I was comparing the point he was making (about the women in the OP complaining for being helped) with Danae complaining. The difference many folks are making is that perhaps they complained because they weren’t being asked. In Chef’s scenario she did ask, so the argument for why she’d complain wasn’t there.
Problem is, if a tanked-up jerk appears and makes unwelcome advances on someone, to any degree, you’ve assigned that someone complete responsibility for handling it. I dislike that premise, and recommending that people sit on their asses watching other people trying not to be bothered, until expressly invited to do something, is beyond my comprehension and probably my own ability. I usually have pointy shoes and a 37-lb. purse on hand if needed and would put both to good use for anyone if the need arose, but truth be told, there are probably more useful specimens of humanity to be found in and around the bar for these occasions. I don’t feel diminished by this.
This is not foolproof. Staying with a group is good.
I think this is much like the point I was trying to make.
The issue is, I think, that sometimes individuals become overly invested in playing the “male part” and can step in and potentially escalate a situation in the name of being protective. They may then expect to be “rewarded” (as the OP speculates his friend was) and certainly expect to be thanked/praised. There may well be times when someone making it clear that they are not afraid to escalate a situation does, in fact, defuse things. However, I think it has to be acknowledged that there are other situations where the escalation seems gratuitous and unnecessarily risky, and those situations–when you are expected to feel grateful and rescued, and instead you feel as if your actual safety was neglected in favor of someone else’s indulgent self-aggrandizing–are very frustrating. You simply can’t win.
So where do you draw the line? In current society the default seems to be “don’t get involved” but oh the gnashing of teeth about an uncaring society. Yes, there’s risk, but most of the time a threat display met with a threat display works.
There are a lot more wolves than sheepdogs, but by all means try to train the sheep to be the sheepdogs. (And no, you people that will insist on drawing the wrong conclusion, I don’t mean that.)
There’s a huge difference between not getting thanked and getting criticized.
Simply not true. Especially, in this day and age and even in this exact scenario. The counter threat was not effective and actually somewhat dangerous.
More often than not you have the option to walk away.
Practice. Soldiers don’t have tea parties, y’know.
Thank you! I feel like you’re the only one in this thread that actually read and understood the chronology of events that occurred.
Quiz time, folks!
Did the bartender throw the guy out? No!
Did the bouncer throw the guy out? No!
Did Marine throw the guy out? No!
Did I throw the guy out? No!
Was I invited to intervene? Yes!
Did the women have a problem with me intervening? No!
Did they appreciate my intervention? Yes!
Did they criticize me later for intervening? No!
Did I start the confrontation? No!
Did I escalate the confrontation? No!
Were they all walked to their cars later? Yes!
It’s not that hard of a story to follow along with. I don’t understand why we’re over 100 posts in and people are still saying ridiculous things like “Maybe she didn’t want your help.” We covered this ages ago. Just pay attention!
You can’t possibly still think I meant that literally, even at the time of writing. It’s clearly facetious even in the original post.
No, it wasn’t just “a Doper,” it was specifically even sven, the poster whose contribution I value the least. That goes for just about any thread on any topic.
What’s that supposed to mean? Hmm?
Right, they thought the violence was unnecessary, completely oblivious to the fact that violence, or at least the threat of violence, was crucial to ending the situation. That’s the language Douchebag speaks. “Woman says no? Keep trying. Guy says take a hike? Threaten him and keep trying. Oh, guy says take a hike or he’ll kick my ass? Better go, then.”
#1, he started it. Just how much time do you think I had? #2, I didn’t even know the dishwasher/bouncer was even in the room until two or three minutes into it. #3, why would I push the responsibility onto someone no more capable that me? The Douchebag picked a fight with me, not the bartender. What’s it got to do with her? You guys keep saying “talk to the bartender, talk to the bouncer, talk to whoever,” but all I keep hearing is “make it someone else’s problem.” And no, I’m not going to do that. Not ever.
Aaaaand stop right there. The analogy is broken. I don’t know how many times I have to say it, but she didn’t “get her jack” and she can’t “change a tire.” This has been CONFIRMED already, so don’t keep questioning it.
So yeah, they did think I was going to “set your car on fire.” That’s the whole point. I didn’t set your car on fire, did I? And you’re back on the road again, aren’t you? And you wouldn’t be if I’d left you alone, now would you?
Rookie mistake. Remaining silent or laughing it off is the type of response that gets you hit. It tells the other guy that he can threaten you without any risk. You can’t let that happen or you’ve lost control of the situation.
And yeah, you are wrong about him being overtly violent. He offered to fight me. He said he’s a dangerous man, a crazy man. He’d break me. He’d leave me to die. He’d kill me, etc. You don’t get any more violent than that.
Right, which is identical to my story.
You have it wrong, then. He got agitated at my presence. I was facing away from him, just listening, and turned maybe 45 degrees toward him, so still mainly looking away. That’s when the “The fuck you lookin’ at?” came in. And so it’s begun. You can’t let it slide or worse will come. You can’t overtly challenge him back or then he has to fight you to save face. So you give him a chance to back out with a neutral response of “Excuse me?!:mad:” He can either quit now with a simple “Bah!” or “Whatever” or keep going.
If you’d just read the script, you’d know all this already. Here’s a copy. Your lines are under “The male friend.”
Chef Troy’s read the script:
Lean over to her, and in a voice loud enough for the creepy dude to hear you ask her - it would give him a clue that you are casually grouped with her, she is not there alone and looking for company, and she can say a resounding yes back to you.
You do not need to be subtle, if she had wanted to be left alone with the creep, she can say yes and it would let the creep know that yes indeed her no was actually a yes.
Here’s a point of view I think is worth pondering. If you know somebody that at some point in time you would EXPECT that person to help you out in a bind and would be extremely pissed off if they did not when the shit hits the fan, then you need to quit the bitchin when they do help you just because they didn’t time it right or do it in method you think was wrong. Especially when it turns out okay. And you are just Monday night quarterbacking.
Women. They don’t need no stinkin help. Till they do.
Woe be the person that doesn’t find that finite point of transition in an infinitely large range of conditions.
What do you think bouncers are there for? That’s their job. The responsibility is already there.
Recently, I went to a bar and got punched in the head. You know what I did? I walked away and told the bouncer and they threw him out. I didn’t threaten him or fight back because that would just be stupid.
Non-sense. There’s a thousand different ways you could have handled that situation differently. You could have said, “hey buddy calm down. We’re not looking for trouble.” Or, you could have said, “I’m watching the game.” There’s nothing in those responses that says he can threaten you without any risk. Instead, it says I’m not really scared of you because I can remain calm under a direct threat. I just don’t want to fight.
Instead, you let him get to you and just reacted. That’s when you actually lost control of the situation. Whether you want to admit it or not you did escalate the situation.
It is super, super gross and creepy for you to drag a potential real-life social situation into this.
And silly, too. I’m imagining you sitting there at a Dopefest shooting some Manson lamps at sven, just hoping against hope that she’ll need to open a door while her hands are full or something, so you can give her a knowing smirk, and then, oh boy, she’ll have been showed. She’ll have been so showed.
If all this is true, why did you start this thread? Because your OP doesn’t say anything about being invited to intervene, and your lengthy rant about the ungrateful bitches who deserve to be raped for their bad attitudes certainly suggested that the women had a problem with you intervening, did not appreciate your intervention, and criticized you later.
So what exactly was the literal meaning of your gloating over the prospect of bitches who disrespected you being raped?
Ah, so your justification for posting about how you look forward to watching her be assaulted is that you don’t value her contributions to the board. Well, that certainly does shed some more light on your character.
It means that I am not impressed by your boasts about bravely rescuing women from rapists because you have also shared with us your fantasies about watching women – including the ones you “saved” – being raped by someone else as punishment for their lack of respect towards you.
In the OP you said he didn’t become agitated and start threatening violence until after you decided it was necessary to “play the male part”.
That’s what happens when you start waving your vagina around on the internet. She should have known better.
All day today I was worried I was going to get raped tonight, but then I read this thread title and was so relieved. Thank you so much, Chessic Sense, though calling me a bitch was unnecessary.
I think you misunderstood their (combined) point. Here’s the deal: I get that you dislike even sven, at least how she represents herself and the advice/interpretations she gives in her posts. That’s cool; there’s nothing intrinsically wrong about that*. So saying
Isn’t the problem. What people have found objectionable/disturbing/very telling is this part:
If your motivations for helping someone really were altruistic, as you claim, it wouldn’t occur to you to say something like this, let alone not understand the issue people have with it.
The right thing to do (helping someone in need/in distress) doesn’t stop being the right thing to do because you don’t like that person. There was a co-worker at my previous job whom I literally despised. But if he was in trouble/needed help, I wouldn’t hesitate to do all I could for help, like I would for family or friends.
The fact you said you would not help a poster you dislike is disturbing. The clarifications for emphasis(“…to help you in any way. With anything. No matter what. You have my honest-to-God word on that.”) make it even more so. Do you see what I’m saying?
That was the main point of my post, but I’ll quickly reply to:
The failure to understand is yours, my friend. You have NO way of knowing for sure what would/could have happened if you hadn’t acted as you did. Yes, I’ll agree that it’s absolutely possible that you prevented a horrible attack/assault. But I don’t agree it’s certain that an assault would have taken place without your actions. It might have or might not.
That’s true.
But all the folks that think he didn’t need to do anything because nothing happened need to lay off too. Because it could have gone down badly if he had NOT done something (probably not rape, but some gropping and or slapping/fisticuffs/shenanigans).
Nobody here knows the alternate timeline and more importantly nobody was there to read the real “vibes” going down, not to mention all the other minor details that can’t be captured with a relatively small amount of text.
Well, it’s confirmed. You haven’t read the thread. I’ve repeatedly said several things directly contradicting your post. You’re not even in the ballpark here. You clearly haven’t read a damn thing I’ve posted, and now you’re just arguing with a character in your head.
I’m honestly stunned by your lack of comprehension. Not once did I say anything close to gloating about rape of any sort. What I specifically said is that next time someone heads down that road, I’ll mind my own business, which is of course a lie. I’ll stop it again and listen to you bitch about it again, and every time thereafter.
You’re just making shit up at this point. Quote where I said “I look forward to watching you be assaulted.” Find it or STFU.
Seriously, you’re just inventing things. Again, quote it or STFU. Otherwise, apologize.
Yeah? So? What’s that have to do with the creepy guy? Nothing. I mean, really, are you even sure you’re posting in the right thread?
Hell, what if Chessic Sense and co. had ended up getting their own asses kicked?
At least two of the people who were there to read the “vibes” of the situation stated immediately after the fact that they felt Chessic’s self-admittedly drunken actions were unnecessary. One of those people was the person supposedly being harassed, and the other person was *Chessic’s own wife, * who presumably is not in the regular practice of giving him shit for no obvious reason.
Why, I wonder, are you so sure that their assessment of the situation was the one in error? It is a most curious mystery!