Ask The Lesbian!

Don’t even get me started… At this stage I can’t even take that phrase said in jest by close friends. I know it is usually meant as a joke, but the reality of “can I watch” is some guy coming up to you and your girl in a gay bar (where you went just so you could have a dance without getting into shit) and saying “Can I watch?” and not taking a no, and offering money, and getting aggro when turned down. This has happened me often enough that I go to gay clubs less than once a year, we dance in the kitchen instead.

It also fucks me off on so many different levels, the same guys going “uhuh… hot… uhuuh…” are the same guys who get their knickers in a twist over gay guys and over “non-sexy” lesbians. I can understand the appeal, the rationale that “1 girl is hot, 2 girls is twice as hot”, I can dig that, but the hipocracy from the majority drives me nuts. You want to see a prime example, go to fark.com. They spend half their time “fapping” to “chick-on-chick action” and the other half screaming about how the sight of some “fat dyke bitch” has caused their retinas to burn out. The whole thing is a wrongheaded argument anyhow, it’s not about lesbians, guys like straight (or at least bi) women having sex, that they get to be a part of.

On top of all that, the devaluation of womens sexuality (the idea that it ain’t sex till the plumber arrives boomchickaboom*chicka) is fairly offensive to me. The objectification. I have an online friend who was really upset that mrsIteki and myself did not want to come to a party he was throwing. It transpired later (no shit sherlock, why do you think we didn’t come) that he had already told his buddies that his “lesbian friends” were coming. I guess we were the floorshow then?

Arrghh better stop now before I get pitworthy or (shock horror) confirm the stereotype of lesbians as man-hating-professional-offenderati.

Apart from the time needed for a guy to, shall we say bounce back :D, there are loads of other factors invloved in sex, no?
As with any physical activity you are going to tire eventually, no matter how fun it is. It also gets to a point where one is just plain “shagged out”, surely there have been times where you probably could have gotten it up again, but you were satisfied enough as it was? I am guessing straight couples don’t keep going at it till they are raw and walking like cowboys even when the opportunity presents itsself? (Well, yeah sometimes, but in general? :smiley: )

Yeah, you’re right. I probably phrased my question inappropriately. Let me try again.

When I have sex with Pricegal, sooner or later I orgasm. Since it takes some effort (usually on both of our parts) to enable me to continue past that point, we either stop there or make a conscious effort to go on. If she wants to go on, it’s pretty obvious, so I can decide if I think I’m able (getting older is a bitch). The same thing happens after my second orgasm, which, to date, is as far as I’ve ever gone (in an unbroken row, that is). I suppose I could go for three, but so far it hasn’t been necessary to ensure satisfaction for all concerned. Or so they’ve told me.

It seems to me that two women having sex never reach such a natural point at which they either stop or continue, but can rather go on indefinitely, should they choose to do so. My question is: what happens? When you’re satisfied, do you say exactly that? Doesn’t that feel somewhat… “mechanistic”, so to speak?

If I’m not making sense, inform me and I’ll try harder.

Making no sense :slight_smile: I suspect it is more a guy/girl thing than a gay/straight thing. I don’t think I really understand the question to be honest. With girlies being able to stack orgasms in a very different way to guys, you can have have them sequentially in a short space of time (I gather thats what you are talking about, during “the one shag” so to speak, the unbroken row you mentioned). This doesn’t mean you can just stack them infinitly, there comes a point where it’s “too much” and you gotta chill out a little while.

Obviously one no more says “thank you very much, I am satisfied now” than you say “thank you very much, I am satisfied now, and what is more, my willy has passed out”. Sex is in itsself a huge non-verbal communication, and of course also involves verbal communication too. Through years of practise, and being a girly myself, I can read what is going on with the other person fairly well, I don’t have to ask or be told anything (speaking for a general shag now, obviously). It is easy to tell when somone is all shagged out, and when they still have a little left in them. I dunno, maybe we are missunderstanding eachother, and this conversation is much to embarassing for this little irish prude :o I better let somone else give it a shot.

Why is that hypocratic? What is so unusual about preferring to see attractive people doing the nasty versus nasty people doing the nasty? Seems pretty straight forward to me be it guys, girls or any combination thereof.

Here’s a few more questions…

Why is it that the gay male community seems so much more vibrant than the gay female community? I live in boys-town in Chicago (Wrigleyville/Lakeview) and there are many gay bars for men but only one for women (The Closet). It’s not just bars either…gay men seem much more politically and socially active in the community and even all the way up to the federal level. Do gay men drastically outnumber gay women? (That’s actually a serious question in it’s own right.) Before anyone busts my chops on this I realize (and even know) many gay women who do go out and are active in politics but nevertheless the balance seems seriously skewed in this respect.

How does the gay female community view the gay male community? Is there a sense of being partners against the system? Solidarity for the same cause? Or is it more, “You do your thing we’ll do ours?”

Why doesn’t my Gaydar[sup]tm[/sup] work on women? I have a gay brother and have spent more time in gay (male) bars than most straight men (probably lesbian bars as well). I can spot a gay man a mile away and think I can spot a gay man who himself may not know he is gay yet (or at least admitted it to himself). I’m not trying to pretend it is infallible by any means but it is nearly as well developed as any gay man you are likely to meet. That said I utterly fail when it comes to women. They have to be overtly gay before I get a clue. Even then I can fail which I suspect is due to women just generally being more touchy-feely with their friends than guys are. I have lesbian friends and while my experience in that community is limited compared to the gay male community I would think my sense would be better developed than it is. What gives?

This last one might be politically incorrect but it goes with the last question somewhat so here it is…

As a lesbian are you more able to spot other lesbians than Joe Blow/Mary Jane walking down the street? I mean, can you spot a likely lesbian before you speak or at least only speak for a very short while?

I realize that in order for me to be a lesbian, I would need some major body and mind alterations, but some of this kinda also applies to gay guys so I thought I’d take a swing.

Because what a lot of them really want is to insert themselves into the scene. The whole point about lesbians is they don’t want or need a guy to have sex, and the mindset that a penis must be involved for it to be “true” intercourse would leave them understandably annoyed.

Size does have something to do with it. Ever study done has placed the percentage of gay men in the population as about 1.5 to 2 times higher than lesbians. Thus, even if the same ratio of lesbians were being active along with gay men, sheer numbers would outweigh them.

As for bars, size of population factors in again along with another: importance. Gay bars play a bigger role in the gay community, and always have to one degree or another. Lesbian bars don’t seem to be the same kind of focal point.

[quoteHow does the gay female community view the gay male community? Is there a sense of being partners against the system? Solidarity for the same cause? Or is it more, “You do your thing we’ll do ours?”[/quote]

My experience 'round where I live is solidarity and quite a lot of social mixing.

That may be true for some but I wouldn’t expect it to be true for all, or even most. Some men just find the thought of two women (who are attractive to them of course) having sex without any participation by a man arousing. Even more so then if a man were included. Note that I specified “attractive to them”. This does not necessarily mean blond bimbos with plastic surgery. This can easily include a variety of builds and looks that many generally consider attractive.

I am heterosexual. I find women more attractive when they exhibit some of the stereotypical female characteristics (i.e. medium to long hair, a higher voice, a lack of body hair, hourglass figure, etc.). I don’t find butch women (lesbian or otherwise) attractive, generally speaking, because they lack many of those attributes.

Whack-a-Mole

The best thing you can do for your friend is just be there for her. She may never come to the realization (or acceptance thereof) that she is a lesbian. I personally think she has a pretty unhappy life ahead of her, and I’m sure you probably agree with me (from the tone of your post). Unfortunately, nothing you say or do will speed up the process for her.

If she conciously knows that she is a lesbian, and still chooses to live a heterosexual life–then there’s nothing you can do. Please don’t take this in a bitchy tone, but an old friend of mine always said in those circumstances, the best bet folks had was to simply mind their own business. I know. That sucks as advice, but that’s the best you can do. Be there for her and support her, because if your assumption is true, she’s going to have a hard road ahead.

Christina25

Other than the bar scene, you are kind of limited as to where you can pick up dates. I always have been a strong advocate of using the Internet personals and the like to meet folks–you can weed out the, uh, undesirables that way. Gay community centers are also a good place to meet people–if you live in a large city that has one, they often have mixers on the weekend. I always found them to be fun. Joining gay pride stuff is another way I met girls, especially AIDs events. Lesbians may sit and sulk around for the most part, but they tend to come out in droves for AIDs fundraisers and the like.

Sternvogel

I don’t personally conform to those stereotypes. I hate sports, I can’t stand outdoorsy activities (hiking, camping, etc), or any of the other dyke-ish things I’m supposed to like. As for math, sure, I’m weak in math. Whether that be from being female or from lack of a good mathematical foundation, I don’t know. I can whip ass in literature, history and the arts though.

And your explanation of the riddle further lets me know that it’s an evil plot to bring me down.

Nate the Great

A gay person using “fag” and “dyke” and “queer” is much like a black person using “nigga”. When you strip words of negative connotations, you start to own the label. Therefore, the group that label was originally applied to starts to own the word. Lots of people don’t agree with that, but I do. My rule of thumb is
this–if you can’t apply the word to yourself, then don’t use it. If you can’t feel the sting of the word personally when a non-gay/non-black/non-whatever uses it, then you can’t use it in the good way, either. Uh, of course you can, but that says something about ya.

:wink:

Priceguy

No. Just…no. My explanation was that straight men do not want to see the average lesbian having sex with another average lesbian. They think slender, long haired, long-legged waifs with large breasts and pouty lips. They don’t think the average dyke who plays softball on the weekend.

As for “when we’re done”–there’s comes a point when no one can go any farther. Women get sore, stiff, uncomfortable and just plain done. How many orgasms do you usually have in a sexual encounter? I’m thinking one or two at most, correct? Same goes for us. Like Iteki said, I don’t think anyone keeps going until they’re raw and bloody.

Whack-a-Mole

Again–no. What we’re trying to say is that what appeals to the average straight male is NOT what an average lesbian looks like. There’s nothing “nasty” about a butch lesbian, but I’m thinking most men don’t fantasize about them. It’s hypocritical to say “lesbian sex is hot, but, uh, only between two Barbies”. If someone is going to use the label “lesbian sex” then it best mean exactly that. Now, if someone means “two straight girls frolicking about in heels”, then say that. Don’t devalue me or my sexual relationships.

As for why gay men are more visible–eh, don’t even get me started. Lesbians are much more prone to hide in the closet for one. For two, they’re just plain lazier. Heh. Also, lesbians have a tendency to be in long-term relationships more so than gay men, which means we have less reason to go clubbing and the like. (What does a lesbian bring on her second date? A U-haul.) If a lesbian is out of the closet, you’re much more likely to catch her at pride events and such. We’re a bunch of lazy fuckers, but we’ll come out in droves to support each other when prompted.

I’m going to be brutally honest–this aggravates me to no end. “Gaydar” is the perception gay people get toward each other–hence, straight people do not have a Gaydar. Yes, you may be able to spot a queen from a block away–most people who knows gay folks can. The reason your “gaydar” doesn’t work on females is because you don’t have one.

I’m very sorry if I sound hostile–I don’t mean to. That just drives me apeshit.

As for lesbians spotting each other–yeah, it’s pretty fine-tuned. You should come dyke-watching with my wife and me one day. It’s pretty amusing. I can usually spot one of the family from ten paces.

There’s some seperation in the gay and lesbian communities, and it’s pretty stupid to be honest. You have your contingent of male-hating lesbians, and your faction of women-hating gay men. They annoy the living shit out of me. If I hear one more lesbian say something degrading about men, I swear I’ll lose my mind.

And welcome, Priam, it’s good to get a gay boy’s POV in here.

Again, sorry it took so long! Hamsters must be on strike.

:slight_smile:

Basically, I know that I’m done a session of lesbian sex when I can’t move my jaw anymore… hope that helps. :wink:

QueerGeekGirl, thanks for the answer about the generation gap upthread.

> Did/do you conform to such academic/scholastic stereotypes as “women are weaker in math than are guys”, “lesbians are more drawn to sports than are straight chicks”, etc.?

Happy lesbian math geek here. :smiley: Actually, about half of the graduate students in math at my school are mainly straight women.

Plus, I’m horrible in sports. But my sister (also gay) is quite good; plays golf to a 12 handicap for instance. Interestingly, most of the golfers she plays with? Mainly straight women again.

For the record, when resistant-to-being-educated straight guys start talking about the “hottitude” of lesbian sex, I start asking them if they’ve ever kissed guys, and start proclaiming the hottitude of man-on-man sex. That usually shuts them up.

IMHO I do think gay men have more bars & clubs devoted to them, and yeah, I think that’s partly because we pair off earlier than gay men-- most gay male couples I know got together later in life, with a couple of exceptions, and partly a whole host of other longwinded reasons having to do with safety and income issues.

But even the single lesbians I know just aren’t clubbers. The lesbians I know, single or partnered, aren’t all that lazy, either. We’re all pretty deeply involved with organizations of one kind or another, everything from the local GLBT political club to special olympics. In fact, the best way I know of to meet women is to start volunteering for something in the community.

And FWIW, in the SF Bay Area (where I’m at) for every visible gay male in politics or community activisim, you can find a visible lesbian.

Uh, could a moderator remove my 500 repeated posts?

Pretty please and thank you.

:slight_smile:

Yeah, and my point was that this doesn’t apply solely to lesbian sex, but to any sex. They want to see good looking women having sex, no matter who they’re having sex with.

Sure, I was just wondering how you told each other, since there’s no “natural” place to stop. I guess Iteki gave me the best available answer.

Maybe I’m just too thick headed to understand this issue but I still don’t get it. What you are describing about straight men wanting to view Lipstick Lesbian Barbies having sex is just as true for straight men watching heterosexual sex. I think most people who want to view pornography (or fantasize) want to see it done between people who they find attractive…whatever the genders of the people having sex are. If I would rather see a buff male having sex with a beautiful woman doesn’t mean that I don’t realize that most hetero sex is done by people considerably less attractive. So too for lesbian sex. I don’t see why a distinction needs to be drawn. Am I devaluing hetero sex if I don’t clarify that I prefer to see a muscular guy shagging a curvy woman versus overweight, hairy guy doing saggy middle-aged woman?

Sorry…I didn’t mean to offend. That said I am now likely to offend you further.

Are you suggesting that ‘Gaydar’ (I hope the term itself isn’t offensive) is unique only to gay people? Is there a gene unique to homosexuals that grants them a sense heterosexual people don’t have?

I’m not sure I see what you find offensive about this. You yourself say you go dyke-watching and that you can spot a lesbian woman before meeting her. What is unusual or wrong about a straight guy doing the same thing (if he could)? It’s not as if I go out to spot homosexual men or women and I frankly couldn’t care less (e.g. “Hey Frank! Let’s go down to the park and see if we can spot the gay people!” :rolleyes: ). To me it is about as important as spotting a blond or a brunette on the street and I don’t need it to separate the women I can hit on from the ones I can’t (I simply never hit on women randomly so it’s a moot issue for me).

In short, I don’t care that I can’t spot lesbians as well (or at all for that matter) compared to gay men. I was simply curious why it seems I can pick out the gay men from a crowd easily but fail utterly when it comes to women.

The hipocrisy comment was about people going on about the hottitude (what a great word!) of lesbians often being the same people who will flat out give me shit for being a lesbian. I am sure some the lawmakers denying me rights also turn dig “lesbian action”. I know that many of the guys squealing about hot-chick-on-chick etcblahblah will in the next breath, as somone mentioned above, complain about “fucking faggots” and how they would rather peel their eyeballs than see two guys hold hands, let alone kiss (simple answer, then don’t, but please STFU about it).

I guess this really depends on what one finds attractive, yes? I mean, for me personally, I’d much rather see the average softball-playing lesbian have sex than the average PB centerfold. Do you kind of see what I’m getting at?

This I don’t understand, still? I mean, isn’t the “natural” time to stop whenever satisfaction is achieved? I think maybe I don’t know quite enough about heterosexual sex to understand what you’re asking. When a man ejaculates and/or orgasms, is that the end of a sexual session? Or…? This is probably a very simple question you’re asking, and I just can’t wrap my head (uh, no pun intended) around it. I apologize!

:slight_smile:

Whack-a-Mole

First! An apology–I used “you” several times when I meant “collective you”.

My brain is just not working well today. Let me see if I can explain my thoughts a little better. I don’t consider two girls playing about in bed for the satisfaction of men “lesbian sex”. There’s nothing wrong with that by any means, but it’s not a representation of the way I (and most lesbians I know) engage in sexual activity. It also bothers me when people (usually men) carry on about how much they just lurrrrrrrrve “lesbian sex”, but they have no idea what “lesbian sex” consists of. That term applies to me as well (if not more so) as it does Jasmine and Triana on the Spice Channel. If you (collective you!) want to see two girls fiddling around with each other (and in most cases I’ve seen–with no idea what they’re doing), then that is not “lesbian sex” as I see it.

I’m not making any sense, am I? Damn. I’m sorry–I’m just trying to get across to you my feelings about it. I’ll stop before I confused you farther.

Please, you didn’t offend me about the Gaydar thing. At all. I’m sorry if I gave that impression. I should have been clearer on what I meant–it bothers me when straight folks (not you, just in general) rhapsodize on about how they can spot a gay man or lesbian for ten paces because they have Gaydar. When you brought it up, it just reminded me of how much it irritated me when people said those things. I think Gaydar is unique to gay people, as it was developed mainly to spot other gays in a time when it was dangerous to attempt to find other gay people, except covertly. Gay people became fine-tuned into what another gay man or lesbian would look like, or what mannerisms they would have–much like the lavendar hanky gay men would wear back in the day to signal to each other. I’m not saying that there are not enlightened straight folks who can also spot gay people, but I don’t consider that “gaydar” per se. To be honest, it’s probably just my own hypocritical feelings that spring up every now and then.

Argh, I’m making a mess of this thread. I’m going to shut up now.

:slight_smile:

As for Gaydar, I must disagree to a certain extent with QGG. Straight people can acquire gaydar. I’ve met a few of them who are better at it (not difficult) than me. However, I think gay people have an inherent fine-tuning ability. Why? Because, just like straight people (males anyway), we’re often seeing if people we find attractive are checking us out as well. If a guy is checking me out, I can be fairly certain he’s some kinda Friend of Dorothy. I can also be fairly certain he has no taste, but lets leave my personal insecurities at the door.

I don’t quite understand what Gaydar is, but I can very often tell if a man is gay. Possibly less so women, I have met very few lesbians (or maybe I didn’t realise that they were).

I think I understand what you mean about the lesbian-sex-titillation thing. It does - from my straight experience, but listening in to men’s conversations, even being included in them - does appear that many of the men who most go on about “hot lesbian action” and “swedish twins” etc, are often those who react hostilely to the image or prospect of two less model-like women getting it on, or two men. It’s not that they admit that it just doesn’t turn them on, but that they find it offensive.

Eg: two men together doesn’t turn me on (I am a straight woman, but not majorly into naked men, just chests and nice eyes and stuff). But I don’t feel offended or revulsed by it. Whereas I have met many, many men who do. And who feel likewise about two “butch” women getting it on, whereas they will melt in a pool of sad drool over two “femme” women.

Getting away from the sex for a minute: I’m a movie geek, and I’m always on the lookout for good titles, so could you recommend some films you’ve enjoyed? I’m not talking about pornos; those were on the first page. I’m asking about just regular old movies, except with lesbian characters and/or by lesbian filmmakers. Like, say, When Mary Met Sally. :wink:

I’m curious for recommendations because it seems to me that the field is somewhat limited. I try to see lots of films from lots of different demographic genres, but once you’ve been through Go Fish and Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love and Better Than Chocolate and But I’m A Cheerleader and the other half-dozen most prominent examples, what else is there? I saw Lost and Delirious last year, for example, and I thought it was okay, I guess, but kind of melodramatic and dopey, and I wonder where all the really good lesbian filmmakers are.

Of course, if you’re the type of moviegoer who’d rather see Adam Sandler’s Happy Gilmore than sit through something depressing but “good for you” like Boys Don’t Cry or High Art, then I guess I better ask someone else. :wink:

Oh, and what do you think of “hip mainstream” lesbian stories like Bound or Mulholland Drive?

I’ve Heard the Mermaids Singing is very good…if you can find it.