Well, how does it work for you? Would you like for a man go down on you? Afterall, a mouth is a mouth. It should feel the same regardless of whether it is a man or a woman. So, does it make a difference and why?
Priceguy–
I agree that it’s semantics. Why do I draw the line? I’m not sure. I guess it’s just basically frustration. I tire quickly of people asking me if “I’ll ever get a man” and when I explain that, no, most lesbians have no desire to be with a man sexually, they immediately start with the “Well, lesbian sex can’t be…” or “I saw in this movie…” or “One time, in college, me and my best friend…”. I guess I’m basically just frustrated with having to constantly explain to people that no–there is no chance that I’ll suddenly “get over” my “lesbian phase” and that no–I won’t find “the right man” and that no–my wife and I are not a “experimental thing”. So it boils down to a quick temper on my part, most likely.
rjung–
Since you were being serious–here’s a serious answer. I think that any sex act is 50% pyschological, 50% physical. What’s that old saying? “Orgasms happen between the ears, not between the legs.” If I don’t find a man sexually attractive, there’s little chance of even getting to the bedroom, you know? That’s my personal two cents, anyway–I guess to some folks “a mouth is a mouth” (thanks, Dr. Lao!), but not to me. Again, the majority of lesbians that I know would not be keen on a man (or anyone really) joining in or watching their sexual activities.
Homebrew–
Sorry! Lost you in the shuffle, also. Would I consider you bisexual? If your sexual relationship with your former wife was mutually satisfying and you were sexually attracted to her, yet you are also attracted to men–yes. That’s what I would personally label you as. Remember, though, this is all my subjective opinion–nothing I say is queer law or anything.
Thank you guys for your questions. I think I’m learning just as much about myself as anyone is learning about lesbians.
I’d say 90% psychological, 10% physical since it isn’t going to work unless I’m turned on by the person in the first place. I’m sure that differs from person to person, though.
This by no means a flame, but an explanation as to why this kind of thing bothers us: I think the old canard about two women inviting the man in tweaks lesbians the way, say, the stereotype of the stupid sex kitten tweaks women or the stereotype of the lazy Mexican tweaks Latinos.
It’s not just a passionate hatred for the stereotype-- anyone can have that-- ; it’s the very personal feeling that, no matter how you illustrate your humanity, your life and relationships, inevitably someone is going to invalidate it with whatever stereotypical bullshit pops into their head. I personally wish I had a buck for everytime I heard “you’re a lesbian? Cool! Can I watch?” and I’m one of the most stereotypical, flannel-shirt wearin’, mullet-headed, fashion-unconscious geeks out there.
Oddly enough, I’ve never heard of this stereotype before. I know it’s a common staple in male heterosexual porno movies, but I’d certainly not take that as an indication of anything for lesbians. Guess my life’s more sheltered than I thought. 
I’d certainly be willing to give it a shot, if the circumstances were right.
I can come up with a lot. 
I’m reminded of this (paraphrased) exchange in a Spider Robinson sci-fi story:
Alien: “Get married? Us? You don’t even know if we’re sexually compatable.”
Callahan’s daughter: “From where I’m standing, I see you’ve got two hands, a mouth, and a tongue. As far as I’m concerned, anything else is gravy.”
Anyway, since the topic is rather touchy, perhaps it’s best if I let the matter die a quiet death.
My (probably contentious) question:
If a lesbian has sex with a transgender-identified butch, or a genderqueer-but-bio-female-boy, is she a lesbian?
She ain’t straight, cos she isn’t screwing men. She isn’t bi for the same reason (I’m not referring in the above to FTM transgender guys who ID as men, although I’d be interested to hear what you said about lesbians who sleep with them, too- more to people who are physically female (+/- surgery/hormones) but not female OR male identified).
I know how all my partners have answered this, and I know how most of my friends IRL answer it, but I’m curious as to your opinions.
First of all, I’d like to commend everyone involved for an absolutely enlightening thread. It’s an incredible read and I hope it will continue to open eyes and make people think.
Now, here’s my question, less pertaining to anything purient but more to logistics…
I’m straight and have grown up my whole life around gay people. As I’ve gotten older and wish to spend more of my time volunteering, my heart has guided me towards GLBT issues. How do folks actually in the trenches feel about those only on the periphery helping? Does it seem trendy? Weird? Do they (generally speaking) want outside assistance or is it seen as intrusive? I’m asking because I’ve known more than one other hetero person who’ve claimed we’re not wanted, disliked or looked down upon. Personally, I think she was a fool, but I’d truly like to hear y’alls opinions.
Thanks.
Hey there, I am, as ever, late to the thread, but I want to throw my lesbian penny’s-worth into the discussion.
Priceguy - your GF can call herself whatever she wants. But if she is not only having sex with a man, but having a fulfilling relationship with a man, she can’t really be a lesbian. It does matter, because if she calls herself a lesbian yet sleeps with men, then it gives certain people fodder to think that all lesbians ‘just haven’t met the right man yet’ or that most lesbians wou;d be willing to sleep with a man. Like I said, she can call herself what she wants, but why wouldn’t she call herself bi?
phraser:
I saw a film at the London LGFF last year where one character insisted that her sexuality was ‘queer’, because her partner was a female in the process of becoming a man. So if I were in that situation, I might call myself queer too. However, it would depend on the other people I’m attracted to, and the other relationships I’ve had. It would also partly depend on the final projected gender of the sexual partner, since if they identify as female, and are in the process of becoming female, then personally I would just consider them another female and any relationship they had with another woman would be a lesbian relationship.
That leads neatly onto …
Eve:
Some lesbians have problems with transgendered people for the same reasons that straight people have problems: most people are disturbed by any ‘blurring of the boundaries’ and of course, we’ve all grown up in the same society that has not exactly been positive about transgendered people. I think lesbians are fabulous, but they’re not paragons of virtue and can be prejudiced just like any other human being.
rjung:
Depends on the lesbians involved. It is, however, totally possible to have lesbian sex without the aid of toys. I’ve never used them myself.
- Do lesbians enjoy penetration? Or is lesbian sex clitoral?
Some do. Some don’t.
- Can guys join in? Yes, I know, lesbians aren’t sexually attracted to guys, but if a guy wanted to “join in” and do whatever you asked him to, would you accept? Or would his presence be too “icky” and knock you out of an amorous mood?
No, of course they can’t.
Just FYI, there are many things lesbians do in bed which straight couples can’t. For example, fingering (I hate that word) between lesbians is totally different than between straight couples. Without that intrusive penis in the way many different positions become possible (and oh some of them are goood), plus a woman’s fingers are much softer and gentler than a man’s, and of course you have a beautiful woman there to play with while she plays with you.
There’s the main issue, in my point of view - the great advantage of having sex with a woman is just that - having sex with a woman. With a woman I can stroke her breasts, feel her smooth skin, play with her clit (etc). It’s more about what I can do rather than what can be done to me. Though of course that’s better too, if only because while she makes love to you, you can still see and smell and feel a beautiful woman next to you.
I think that’s why straight people don’t understand ‘what lesbians do in bed.’ It’s not just about what we do, as who is doing it. Though as I said, what we can do is much, much better too.
Therefore a man would not be welcome, even if he would ‘do whatever I asked him to,’ because a large amount of the satisfaction comes from playing with another woman’s breasts and clitoris, and unless he can magically grow those, then he’s not going to be much use!
hopefool - help away all you like, AFAIC.
Gah, frelled up the coding, knew I would, but at least the post is still intelligible (I hope!)
I also wanted to answer this question from page 2 because it’s been bugging me ever since I read it and the responses. Priceguy asked ‘how do you when you’re done?’ and what surprised me was that this seemed a difficult question for people to answer. I find it a very easy question, the same as with men - you come, you’re done! Me, my partner, my ex-partners, all find that the clitoris is sensitive after orgasm, so we wouldn’t want to continue sex then.
Am I a bizarre and unusual lesbian, with bizarre and unusual partners, in that this answer is blindingly obvious to me?
SciFiSam–
I thought Priceguy was referring to the fact that women can have multiple orgasms and men cannot, so in theory, a woman could go on orgasming forever and ever.
Shit, I don’t know. That’s what I got from it.
Ah, OK. Well, IME most women have a limit to the number of orgasms they can have in one go before it starts to turn painful. The ‘threshhold’ is higher for some women than others, of course, (mine is 2, my GF’s is 15 :D), but all the same the orgasms stop before your partner’s hand (or tongue) gets tired.
I’ve found this thread very interesting … thanks QueerGeekGirl and other lesbians who have been so honest!
I just have a comment: the discussion of transgendered people brings to mind two characters from film and literature, one fictional, one real. The first is the girlfriend from “The Crying Game.” When the IRA guy finds out she’s a man, he is initially repulsed, but then finds that he still is drawn to her and continues the relationship.
The second is The Lady Chablis from “Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.” (The book; I haven’t seen the movie.) In it, Chablis explans how her boyfriend had the same reaction, anger … but he still stays with her, regardless of the fact that she remains, anatomically, a man. She emphasizes the point that they aren’t a “gay” couple; she prefers a heterosexual man who wants to be with a woman (though she technically is not.)
Just an observation … do any of you have any thoughts?
Actually, my own orientation is not the main part of my question. What I’m trying to get a handle on is at what point on the Kinsey scale do you, and others, consider the breaking point between Gay, Bi and Straight. Is it only the Kinsey 6 who has never been with an opposite sex partner who is Gay or Lesbian? Or is the Kinsey 4 who will most likely never again be with someone of the opposite sex also Gay? Is the Kinsey 1 who will never act on her same-sex attraction except in fantasy (or perhaps role-playing) still Bi or is she straight? As 'punha asked, is desire or behavior more the determining factor?
…continuing the hijack…
Surely the point is that the narrator is the only traveller going to St. Ives, he met the others because they were leaving St. Ives. So the answer is one.
My only contribution to the real thread is thank QueerGeekGirl and the other serious contributors for an enlightening discussion.
QGG: Found something related to my question about lesbians having kids. From the GD thread:“Can 2 men have a child via sexual reproduction? Maybe…” From a cite supplied by ScifiSam: “Although Mackellan didn’t discuss it, it’s actually easier to insert the genetic material from a second egg into an intact egg to create an offspring with two genetic mothers. This means that potentially all lesbian couple could both be genetically parents of a child. However, all their offspring would be female since all eggs carry the “X” chromosome.”
must suck though. women just dont get treated seriously by anybody. the whole society is set up such that men have all the power, and women leech off of them. and you lesbians have nobody to leech off of.
Well done vasyachkin.
I believe you managed to insult almost everyone alive with that last gem.
Then again, he commented in another thread that “i thought it were the stupid ones [who have small brains]. in fact there has been a reasearch that showed fat people have smaller brains.” So I wouldn’t worry about it. :rolleyes: :wally
haha ! yes, check back to that thread i posted the link to the study ( since some apparently fat ***** did not believe me ).
Marley you meant to put [who are fat] in those square brackets.
I bracketed exactly what I meant to. You don’t seem any better at that than you are at spelling or communicating.