That would be a very good gift, especially since she doesn’t care about baby’s future at all.
Do we have to (should we?) give a baby shower gift to a person that didn't give us any wedding gift?
In my other thread the sister I was talking about (the one that was supposed to be a witness and was 2 hours late to the ceremony, and didn’t give anything even though she was talking about it for weeks) was the same person this post is about. So I just made this post that I feel this is a logical thing to do, and not give her anything fancy as she expects because she didn’t give us a gift, and didn’t help in any other way either even though we asked.
+1. I personally would give whatever gift I was comfortable with financially., regardless of what their gift to me was in a previous gift-giving situation.
Not everyone would agree with you there. Baker did have something to say, you just didn’t like it. If you come to a public message board to discuss issues that should have been resolved with your wife before you married (and there is nothing really wrong with that, that’s what anonymous fora are for), you should be prepared for some hard truths.
You are probably not a bad person, but you come across as a judgmental, inflexible, and possibly greedy one, with the figurative ledger you keep for gifts, and your determination to dictate how your wife handles her own family and her own money.
This woman IS a mess I’d say it that way. She goes to a nail salon every week, and she is doing her hair every 2 weeks, and then she’s complaining that she has $4 left on her account at the end of the month… To me if someone doesn’t have a lot they need to have priorities, and do things things they need to do before doing something they like to do.
And of course not, I’d rather have her celebrate without a gift than not coming because she didn’t have one, but a funny fact is that she was giving me attitude at our wedding and not talking to me at all because I decided not to wait for her, and had ceremony without her (remainder: she was running 2 hours late and everybody was waiting).
I agree baby wipe warmer is a crazy idea when someone already doesn’t have money. [My sister got one and she was using it all the time but she never got any money from the government, and she was working full time past her due date(!), and 2 months after her baby was born]. But, let’s go back to the topic. I see that very often future parents (especially young) with no money request the dumbest gifts instead of concentrating on what they absolutely need for the baby. But I guess we can’t change that.
And I strongly agree that used things like stroller, car seat, even baby cloths are absolutely fine. Personally, I wouldn’t mind to get a used gadget and save money this way. But I can’t speak for everyone, maybe this girl is too fancy to use second-hand stroller, we’ll see.
Did he really? What did he bring to the discussion then? I was asking to answer my questions which he absolutely didn’t do, so why comment then?
I’m 23, not 43, so obviously I have not been dating my wife for 20 years because we got married, because I don’t believe this changes anything. To me you either want to be with the person or you don’t. No need to do a background check on 300 family members and meet all of them before, because I was not going to marry any of them but the girl I was with. And I knew about her family debts before we got married, but now they’re doing even more stupid decisions what worries me, and that’s why I post here. And I do talk to my wife about our issues. I just wanted to share it with other people to see what they think. Why do I even have to explain that? :smack:
Well, then call me greedy because I worry about mine and my wife’s future. Once you get married nothing should be 100% “your own” as you call it. I do choose to have separate accounts for now which doesn’t mean I won’t change it in the near future. But we also want to buy an apartment together in the next couple years, together save money for adoption, go on vacation every summer, etc. So whatever, if you think I’m greedy because I don’t want to struggle financially like other people from my new family then okay, but I think you’re wrong. I’m ambitious and hardworking. I am willing to work every single day to have a good life but I won’t be paying off their debts just because at least once a week they don’t go to work because they “don’t feel like it”.
BOLDING MINE, Actually this is one practical gift I’d recommend. A diaper genie. Works great for getting rid of disposable diapers, only around $22 and often you can find them used.
Quick story - A friend of mine when they had their first baby both mother in laws went on a shopping spree for several weeks to give them every item they would need (stroller, changing tables, bottles, playpens, toys, etc…) and clothes for the first 2 years. BUT, they only bought stuff at garage sales or thrift type stores. Total cost less than $500.
That doesn’t count the cost of the special bags you have to buy.
For a middle class person, it might be a nice gift. For someone who is soon to be unemployed, with an unemployed father, it’s an unnecessary frivolity. IMO.
I want to float an idea past you that may help you understand your new family better. There are two different sorts of financial cultures: “tribal” and “individual”. Tribal families/cultures are like your wife’s family - everyone shares resources out among the group and yes, some give more than others and some get more than others. This has the benefit of keeping everyone alive, but it can pull down some of the higher achievers and harder workers. Individual families/cultures are more like yours: the individual attempts to take care of themselves without expecting outside help, nor are they expected take on the burden of the extended family. Now, no one is 100% either - “tribal” families still have individual achievers, and “individual” families still help each other other, but the important thing to understand is that both systems work in some sense (despite the money problems no one in your wife’s family is starving or sleeping on a sidewalk, correct?)
Clearly, you and your wife come from somewhat different worlds. You have both, from a young age, had personal experience with just one system. You’re asking your wife to change her financial culture, and this can be difficult. I don’t know you in real life, and I don’t really know how you interact with your wife, but I want you to keep in mind that you are asking her to drastically change how she approaches money and constructing a financial safety net. This is hard for her, and I am concerned this will cause friction and hard feelings in your marriage.
I also don’t know how close you live to these people - my spouse and I live 800 miles away from our in-laws, which makes minimizing contact and conflict fairly easy. If you are required to interact with these people frequently you will need to restrain how you judge them, at least in public. The line “My family has always done this thing differently than yours, so your practices are new to me” or some variation can go a long way to papering over differences at family gatherings. You do not have to like your in-laws, but being minimally polite to them will make life more pleasant for all.
There is nothing wrong with separate accounts. My household has moved from separate to joint back to separate accounts over the years for various reasons. The question is what works for YOUR household? If you and your wife had a joint household account and each had an account of your own for each of you to spend as you wish (think of it as an allowance out of the household funds) that could work - as long as both of you hold to the system. The household’s needs are paid, you can do what you wish with your share, and she can do what she wants with hers. However, if you do go to that system and your wife spends *her *money on her family you say nothing. If it really is her share of the money and that’s what she wants to spend it on that is her choice (I’m presuming any such monies will come only out of her account). If you don’t want her criticizing YOUR choices under such a system then you can’t criticize hers.
Yes. Including your wife. It’s fine to discuss what the two of you can afford, but if your wife wants to give her sister something then she should do so even if you do not like her sister and don’t want to give her anything.
This is why I suggest an “allowance” for the two of you - at this point it may not be much, but if each “payday” (not sure how you’re getting income in the household right now) each of you is allotted X dollars that are unequivocally yours this will mitigate much dissension. If your wife then wants to give a gift to her sister out of her money and you want to invest yours in mutual funds then you won’t have to argue about it and neither of you will devastate the household finances with a personal purchase. You may not agree with her choices but anyone who has been married any length of time will tell you that disagreements will occur.
Based on what you’ve told me, I’m going to take a wild guess and assume your wife;s family has been largely poor for more than just one generation. This sort of spending pattern and financial sharing is characteristic of extended families with little money for extended periods of time. Let me try to explain a bit of this in hopes you will understand what they’re doing better. That doesn’t mean you should agree with it, just understand why they do this.
One of the problems of being poor is that windfalls don’t last. There is so much need that anything that comes in gets spent nearly instantly. If it’s not the car needing to be fixed it’s baby needs new shoes. Once you reach a certain level of poverty saving is nearly impossible. On top of that, many government programs limit how much savings you can have, if you exceed that limit >boom< you’re off the program and when the money runs out you have to re-apply. Which is a pain in the butt.
Let’s say someone wins a scratch-off lottery ticket and gets $5,000. The thing is, that’s a one time windfall. Next month their income will still be just as inadequate. The government benefits people don’t look at it like that, it’s “Oh, you have assets now? Off the program!” So… what are they going to do? Scrimp and save to make that $5k to last a month or two then have to reapply for benefits will all sorts of paperwork and delays? Or are they going to parcel out that money among family and spend it so they will continue to have funds coming into the household next month without interruption? Which is less disruptive to their household? Ideally, if one person shares their windfall this month then someone else will share theirs next month, so everyone gets some goodies.
The thing is, if your sister-in-law is on WIC and SNAP (and soon TANF) then she is severely limited in the assets she can have and remain on the program. Unless she can up her income to a reliably greater number every month (unlikely from what you have given us) then, actually, she’s better off NOT saving much if anything She probably does have a small stash, but saving the money she spends on manicures and hairstyling will not get her out of poverty but it COULD severely impact the aid income she relies upon.
Now, many of us realize that long term you’re better off improving your income and getting free of poverty, but if all you’ve ever known is that sort of poverty, if that’s where everyone in your family is, you aren’t going to know that. You may not like how she survives, but in context her behavior is not entirely irrational. It’s not ideal, but it can work.
(My spouse came from multi-generational poverty and these patterns were well entrenched even before the government started providing aid, it’s just that the current system exacerbates the tendencies. Fortunately, my spouse sincerely wanted to change but there has been a constant battle against old habits.)
Nope. It’s a combination of inexperience and the effect of advertising, which exists to tell us to buy stuff we don’t need.
Actually, second-hand car seats are not recommended because the new ones are much safer than in the past. Likewise, second-hand cribs and strollers can also have safety issues. I’m not saying never, but there is an argument for buying those particular items new.
Now, clothes and toys - second hand are just fine (make sure you can clean the toys! Kids put things in their mouths after all).
Yes, actually, you did marry them in a sense. You are now part of their extended family. You can choose to distance yourself but they will continue to be out there.
Do NOT ask your wife to choose between her family and you. You may not like the answer. (My paternal grandmother tried that on my dad. To her vast surprise, dad put her on a plane back to St. Louis and shipped her stuff down there a day later. I’ve known of other instances where instead of that a divorce happened.) Clearly, she still likes her family and will continue to interact with them. That means you will encounter them at least occasionally. Be polite and pick your battles carefully.
All of this advice is based on watching my parents (their marriage lasted 60 years) and my own (25 years and counting). Learn to deal with the in-laws as early as possible, and that might mean putting up with some stuff you don’t like or don’t agree with in social situations (not in your own house) to keep hostilities in check.
They’re going to continue to make decisions you think are stupid. That is never going to change. Your wife might change her financial habits, they won’t.
Because a lot of people are judgmental assholes. (Try not to be one yourself)
Then have separate accounts if it works for you. There is nothing wrong with that approach. Have an account for household expenses. Have a savings account for those vacations/future home/whatever. I do think, if you do that, you should have “allowances” for each of you to spend as you wish - without second-guessing what the other person does. If your wife wants to spend some of her money on a gift for her sister that’s her choice. As long as the bills are paid and the savings are still building that is OK - she could, after all, be spending $5 a day on a Starbucks and there’s even less chance of reciprocation with that transaction than in giving a gift to her sister.
You got it - you are ambitious and hardworking, they are not. You will probably advance to a higher socio-economic level, they will not. Not everyone is like you, some are content to stay where they are. Don’t fret over it. Don’t try to change them (you won’t). Some will call you greedy because they see your different approach to life as a criticism of them (even if it isn’t). Some just won’t understand you. Many won’t care, or will be happy if your wife is doing better financially.
I would suggest you never discuss finances with the in-laws, though.
Do you really see nothing wrong with this, OP?
Having separate accounts? Huh?
To the OP, you need to worry about yourself. How much your SIL spend at the hairdresser isn’t your problem, and nobody is going to give you a gold star for being oh-so-much better than her. Yes, spending money foolishly is foolish. But you are really, seriously, thinking about this way too much. She’s not going to change, and frankly unless she is breaking any laws she doesn’t have to. You have your own financial problems to worry about and your SIL has jack to do with them. Yes, you need to set go boundaries, but those are with your wife.
In regards to baby showers, sometimes it’s hard to know what is necessary and what isn’t, especially if you’ve never been around babies. For every person who didn’t use the diaper genie, there is someone who found it indispensable. For every person who never uses their stroller, there is someone who uses it daily.
Add to that that there are often other people with you when you are building a registry, and those people sometimes apply a lot of pressure (my MIL insisted we absolutely needed a wipes warmer, and wouldn’t let me walk out without one on the list). And then the reality that people actually do buy the stuff on your list. I was kind of shocked at the stuff people bought for us. If I’d only stuck to the bare basics, I would have ended up with a lot of outfits which were frankly even more useless than the wipes warmer- between gifts and hand me downs our girl has a new outfit every day for the first six months.
I know, my sister has a diaper genie, she even has one that is brand new and she never opened it but I really doubt my sister-in-law would ever buy the special bags because they’re more expensive than just garbage bags. And I know my mother-in-law is super against diaper genie I have no idea why.
And that’s a smart thinking. Even on Craigslist you can find baby strollers and other stuff that were barely used for a much lower price than in a store! But as I’m saying my family-in-law likes to have a “fancy” life even though they don’t have money. They use credit cards as it was free money smh…
I agree that’s a great thing for a middle class person. Same as other gadgets like this. That’s why I just can’t understand WHY this girl wants a formula machine! I would never even buy such thing because that’s so useless.
No? It’s 2015 (almost 2016), wake up.
Well to me separate accounts will save me a lot of stress because her sister asks about money almost every day. There is always: “ohh can you pay for a stroller for my friend with your credit card?”, “can you quick pay me $100 right now? (…) Damn you don’t have it? How about $10 at least then?”. At least I don’t have to worry and get mad whenever she gives her money because it’s not my account, and if it was it would bother me. So yes, to me that’s a good solution for now at least, because I want to see how my sister-in-law will act later.
I know people can surprise with their generosity. My sister was surprised too when she actually got all the items she had on her baby registry, such as car seat, baby bassinet, etc. But she never put on her registry stuff like stroller for $1,500+ or crib, she just got them by herself.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I’m surprised that someone is expressing that there is some kind of problem with separate accounts. It’s a pretty common and practical arrangement.
I’m surprised, I thought my point was obvious; Ana12 should not expect to make all the decisions in the marriage, not about the financial goals and strategies and not about gifts for her in-laws.
Her wife may well expect to decide what to give her niece as a gift, whether to maintain a separate bank account, and how close to remain with her birth family.
I thought 3 onesies would be a good gift for a newborn. :: shrug ::