Do we have to (should we?) give a baby shower gift to a person that didn't give us any wedding gift?

[psychobunny]

I would suggest the OP and wife need to get more in sync about money. I agree that having at least some money separately is useful. There always should be the opportunity to spend some money individually by each person (even if it’s to buy gifts for each other). The more worrisome thing is that the wife’s credit card debt can affect the OP. Even if the debt is solely in the wife’s name, it can affect the wife’s credit score which can affect your ability to buy a house together (and if you live in a community property state the wife’s debt is the OPs debt regardless of whose name is on the card). It sounds like the OP doesn’t trust the wife’s spending and that doesn’t seem like a very good place to start being sensible about money.

[Gatopescado]

Great username/OP combo about being butt-hurt.

[Ana12]

@even_sven

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I’m surprised that someone is expressing that there is some kind of problem with separate accounts. It’s a pretty common and practical arrangement.

Me too, some people act like they’ve never heard of it

[Ana12]

@j666

I’m surprised, I thought my point was obvious; Ana12 should not expect to make all the decisions in the marriage, not about the financial goals and strategies and not about gifts for her in-laws.

Her wife may well expect to decide what to give her niece as a gift, whether to maintain a separate bank account, and how close to remain with her birth family.

You clearly don’t understand the point of this post. But everybody else does so I won’t bother to explain it to you.

[Ana12]

@psychobunny

I would suggest the OP and wife need to get more in sync about money. I agree that having at least some money separately is useful. There always should be the opportunity to spend some money individually by each person (even if it’s to buy gifts for each other). The more worrisome thing is that the wife’s credit card debt can affect the OP. Even if the debt is solely in the wife’s name, it can affect the wife’s credit score which can affect your ability to buy a house together (and if you live in a community property state the wife’s debt is the OPs debt regardless of whose name is on the card). It sounds like the OP doesn’t trust the wife’s spending and that doesn’t seem like a very good place to start being sensible about money.

I agree it’s always good/useful to have at least some little savings so during Christmas time nobody gets a heart attack that the other person spent too much money on one gift, etc. That’s another thing that you’re right about, debts affect the credit. I don’t understand why some people are getting so offended by the fact that I want to keep accounts separate for now. I don’t really see a reason to join them yet because we don’t have to pay any rent (we live with my sister). If I didn’t trust my wife at all, and I was convinced that she’ll end up in debts I wouldn’t marry her. I do trust her, I know she wouldn’t just go and buy a car for her sister or anybody else. She’s just still sometimes irresponsible with spending money, and on a daily basis she’s asked to land money to other people. Sometimes she says no, sometimes she doesn’t. I’m just being responsible. I want to make sure we won’t end up one day having our own place, and not being able pay our bills, because someone didn’t give her money back on time.

[j666]

@Ana12

You clearly don’t understand the point of this post. But everybody else does so I won’t bother to explain it to you.

I do understand what you are most concerned about, but I think you should re-read your post with my comments in mind. You do not show a lot of respect for your wife’s opinions; that’s fatal to a happy marriage.

[Ana12]

@j666

I do understand what you are most concerned about, but I think you should re-read your post with my comments in mind. You do not show a lot of respect for your wife’s opinions; that’s fatal to a happy marriage.

How am i not showing her respect? Right now she’s paying her sister’s bills because she’s not working, so do you still think it’s so bad I want separate accounts?

[Ana12]

@Broomstick

I want to float an idea past you that may help you understand your new family better. There are two different sorts of financial cultures: “tribal” and “individual”. Tribal families/cultures are like your wife’s family - everyone shares resources out among the group and yes, some give more than others and some get more than others. This has the benefit of keeping everyone alive, but it can pull down some of the higher achievers and harder workers. Individual families/cultures are more like yours: the individual attempts to take care of themselves without expecting outside help, nor are they expected take on the burden of the extended family. Now, no one is 100% either - “tribal” families still have individual achievers, and “individual” families still help each other other, but the important thing to understand is that both systems work in some sense (despite the money problems no one in your wife’s family is starving or sleeping on a sidewalk, correct?)

Clearly, you and your wife come from somewhat different worlds. You have both, from a young age, had personal experience with just one system. You’re asking your wife to change her financial culture, and this can be difficult. I don’t know you in real life, and I don’t really know how you interact with your wife, but I want you to keep in mind that you are asking her to drastically change how she approaches money and constructing a financial safety net. This is hard for her, and I am concerned this will cause friction and hard feelings in your marriage.

I also don’t know how close you live to these people - my spouse and I live 800 miles away from our in-laws, which makes minimizing contact and conflict fairly easy. If you are required to interact with these people frequently you will need to restrain how you judge them, at least in public. The line “My family has always done this thing differently than yours, so your practices are new to me” or some variation can go a long way to papering over differences at family gatherings. You do not have to like your in-laws, but being minimally polite to them will make life more pleasant for all.
There is nothing wrong with separate accounts. My household has moved from separate to joint back to separate accounts over the years for various reasons. The question is what works for YOUR household? If you and your wife had a joint household account and each had an account of your own for each of you to spend as you wish (think of it as an allowance out of the household funds) that could work - as long as both of you hold to the system. The household’s needs are paid, you can do what you wish with your share, and she can do what she wants with hers. However, if you do go to that system and your wife spends *her *money on her family you say nothing. If it really is her share of the money and that’s what she wants to spend it on that is her choice (I’m presuming any such monies will come only out of her account). If you don’t want her criticizing YOUR choices under such a system then you can’t criticize hers.
Yes. Including your wife. It’s fine to discuss what the two of you can afford, but if your wife wants to give her sister something then she should do so even if you do not like her sister and don’t want to give her anything.

This is why I suggest an “allowance” for the two of you - at this point it may not be much, but if each “payday” (not sure how you’re getting income in the household right now) each of you is allotted X dollars that are unequivocally yours this will mitigate much dissension. If your wife then wants to give a gift to her sister out of her money and you want to invest yours in mutual funds then you won’t have to argue about it and neither of you will devastate the household finances with a personal purchase. You may not agree with her choices but anyone who has been married any length of time will tell you that disagreements will occur.
Based on what you’ve told me, I’m going to take a wild guess and assume your wife;s family has been largely poor for more than just one generation. This sort of spending pattern and financial sharing is characteristic of extended families with little money for extended periods of time. Let me try to explain a bit of this in hopes you will understand what they’re doing better. That doesn’t mean you should agree with it, just understand why they do this.

One of the problems of being poor is that windfalls don’t last. There is so much need that anything that comes in gets spent nearly instantly. If it’s not the car needing to be fixed it’s baby needs new shoes. Once you reach a certain level of poverty saving is nearly impossible. On top of that, many government programs limit how much savings you can have, if you exceed that limit >boom< you’re off the program and when the money runs out you have to re-apply. Which is a pain in the butt.

Let’s say someone wins a scratch-off lottery ticket and gets $5,000. The thing is, that’s a one time windfall. Next month their income will still be just as inadequate. The government benefits people don’t look at it like that, it’s “Oh, you have assets now? Off the program!” So… what are they going to do? Scrimp and save to make that $5k to last a month or two then have to reapply for benefits will all sorts of paperwork and delays? Or are they going to parcel out that money among family and spend it so they will continue to have funds coming into the household next month without interruption? Which is less disruptive to their household? Ideally, if one person shares their windfall this month then someone else will share theirs next month, so everyone gets some goodies.

The thing is, if your sister-in-law is on WIC and SNAP (and soon TANF) then she is severely limited in the assets she can have and remain on the program. Unless she can up her income to a reliably greater number every month (unlikely from what you have given us) then, actually, she’s better off NOT saving much if anything She probably does have a small stash, but saving the money she spends on manicures and hairstyling will not get her out of poverty but it COULD severely impact the aid income she relies upon.

Now, many of us realize that long term you’re better off improving your income and getting free of poverty, but if all you’ve ever known is that sort of poverty, if that’s where everyone in your family is, you aren’t going to know that. You may not like how she survives, but in context her behavior is not entirely irrational. It’s not ideal, but it can work.

(My spouse came from multi-generational poverty and these patterns were well entrenched even before the government started providing aid, it’s just that the current system exacerbates the tendencies. Fortunately, my spouse sincerely wanted to change but there has been a constant battle against old habits.)
Nope. It’s a combination of inexperience and the effect of advertising, which exists to tell us to buy stuff we don’t need.
Actually, second-hand car seats are not recommended because the new ones are much safer than in the past. Likewise, second-hand cribs and strollers can also have safety issues. I’m not saying never, but there is an argument for buying those particular items new.

Now, clothes and toys - second hand are just fine (make sure you can clean the toys! Kids put things in their mouths after all).
Yes, actually, you did marry them in a sense. You are now part of their extended family. You can choose to distance yourself but they will continue to be out there.

Do NOT ask your wife to choose between her family and you. You may not like the answer. (My paternal grandmother tried that on my dad. To her vast surprise, dad put her on a plane back to St. Louis and shipped her stuff down there a day later. I’ve known of other instances where instead of that a divorce happened.) Clearly, she still likes her family and will continue to interact with them. That means you will encounter them at least occasionally. Be polite and pick your battles carefully.

All of this advice is based on watching my parents (their marriage lasted 60 years) and my own (25 years and counting). Learn to deal with the in-laws as early as possible, and that might mean putting up with some stuff you don’t like or don’t agree with in social situations (not in your own house) to keep hostilities in check.
They’re going to continue to make decisions you think are stupid. That is never going to change. Your wife might change her financial habits, they won’t.
Because a lot of people are judgmental assholes. (Try not to be one yourself)
Then have separate accounts if it works for you. There is nothing wrong with that approach. Have an account for household expenses. Have a savings account for those vacations/future home/whatever. I do think, if you do that, you should have “allowances” for each of you to spend as you wish - without second-guessing what the other person does. If your wife wants to spend some of her money on a gift for her sister that’s her choice. As long as the bills are paid and the savings are still building that is OK - she could, after all, be spending $5 a day on a Starbucks and there’s even less chance of reciprocation with that transaction than in giving a gift to her sister.
You got it - you are ambitious and hardworking, they are not. You will probably advance to a higher socio-economic level, they will not. Not everyone is like you, some are content to stay where they are. Don’t fret over it. Don’t try to change them (you won’t). Some will call you greedy because they see your different approach to life as a criticism of them (even if it isn’t). Some just won’t understand you. Many won’t care, or will be happy if your wife is doing better financially.

I would suggest you never discuss finances with the in-laws, though.

Thank you so much for explaining it to me, your post helped me a lot! We got better, no more fights about anything.
Her sister is not working anymore though so my wife ended up paying her phone bill because they share the same plan… She’s supposed to pay it back, we’ll see how it goes, but I know she won’t be paying it every month for her.

[j666]

@Ana12

How am i not showing her respect? Right now she’s paying her sister’s bills because she’s not working, so do you still think it’s so bad I want separate accounts?

Re-read your posts.

Simplest example - you stated that it was your choice to have separate accounts, and it would be your choice to switch to a joint account.

Advanced - you have consistently denigrated your wife’s decisions, and strongly indicated you want to push her family our of her life.

[Ana12]

@j666

Re-read your posts.

Simplest example - you stated that it was your choice to have separate accounts, and it would be your choice to switch to a joint account.

Advanced - you have consistently denigrated your wife’s decisions, and strongly indicated you want to push her family our of her life.

No, I said I want to have separate account for now but I didn’t say “it’ll be my choice to switch to a joint account”. My wife has no problem with having a joint account now or later.
I don’t think you understand my situation, but I don’t think I can blame you for it because probably you’re not financially independent. I didn’t push anyone out of her life, and I did not “denigrate my wife’s decisions”. I like my mother in law, I talk to her on a daily basis. I talk to everyone from my wife’s family, we have no problems, we actually have a good relationship. The only thing I don’t agree with is supporting them financially because those are adult people with their own families, so they should know better than that. They created this little “community” where they support each other financially so that nobody is homeless but nobody is without debts, but I don’t agree to live like this, and my wife agrees with that. So if she has no problem why are you forcing me to be a part of something I don’t support?

[j666]

@Ana12

… I didn’t say “it’ll be my choice to switch to a joint account”. …

@Ana12

… I do choose to have separate accounts for now which doesn’t mean I won’t change it in the near future. …

No, you did not use those exact words.

Re-read your posts. Think about them.

[Ana12]

@j666

No, you did not use those exact words.

Re-read your posts. Think about them.

Omg what is your problem? I have more important things to do than explaining to you something that other 50 people understood with no problem smh

[elbows]

Here’s the thing, how irresponsible your wife’s sister is, should be of no concern to you. How she conducts her life and finances is not your business. What she wants as gifts, pictures she shows, obligations to help out she implies, amount to nothing. And your judgement of her for these shortcomings harms you and your wife, and will harm your relationship enormously.

You need to disconnect from obligation to this woman. You don’t get out of gift giving because she was a jerk at your wedding. That’s incredibly immature and not how adults conduct themselves. Yes, your new niece or nephew should get a gift. It should be whatever you and your wife feel is appropriate. Something small and simple. But it must be given with sincerity, not out of spite. And you should remind each other to take pride in who you are and the responsible choices you make for a secure future, so you can feel good about your gift regardless of its cash value!

If you are feeling pressured to give a bigger gift, pay her bills, or be responsible for her bad life choices that’s on you. No one can MAKE you do those things. Only you can decide whether to give her expectations merit.

Now it sounds to me like you wife comes from a family where that undying tribal obligation to each other, in all circumstances, is deeply rooted. I can understand why this causes you concern, for your own future family’s financial security. But I also sense that your wife would like to free herself from this unreasonable burden, you should be helping her to do so.

Raging against her sister won’t get you there. You need to be an ocean of calm in the face of her sister’s foolish financial choices, unreasonable expectations and implications of familial obligations. If you are really interested in leading your wife to where you’d like her to be regarding this nonsense, your response should be more along the lines of, “These are her choices to make. She must bear the consequences of her bad choices just as we will benefit from our good choices. Such is life!”

You needn’t judge the sisters choices, simply shrug and say, “It’s her life. It’s not what I would choose, but she’s an adult and will have to learn some of life’s lessons the hard way I suppose.”

As I see it, your best hope is to disconnect from any emotional investment in her bad life choices. This will loudly communicate to your wife, and those around you that these things will have no bearing on how you choose to conduct your life.

Wishing you Goid Luck, I know this will be a very hard thing for you to do!

[lalaith]

According to Miss Manners, someone has up to a year after the wedding to give a wedding gift. You were only married in October. The person is well within the window of allowable wedding gift giving.

[j666]

@Ana12

Omg what is your problem? I have more important things to do than explaining to you something that other 50 people understood with no problem smh

No, you don’t have to explain anything to me, but you really should re-read your posts and think about them.

It’s simple. You don’t get to make unilateral decisions. I’m not the only one pointing that out.

[Ana12]

@elbows

Here’s the thing, how irresponsible your wife’s sister is, should be of no concern to you. How she conducts her life and finances is not your business. What she wants as gifts, pictures she shows, obligations to help out she implies, amount to nothing. And your judgement of her for these shortcomings harms you and your wife, and will harm your relationship enormously.

You need to disconnect from obligation to this woman. You don’t get out of gift giving because she was a jerk at your wedding. That’s incredibly immature and not how adults conduct themselves. Yes, your new niece or nephew should get a gift. It should be whatever you and your wife feel is appropriate. Something small and simple. But it must be given with sincerity, not out of spite. And you should remind each other to take pride in who you are and the responsible choices you make for a secure future, so you can feel good about your gift regardless of its cash value!

If you are feeling pressured to give a bigger gift, pay her bills, or be responsible for her bad life choices that’s on you. No one can MAKE you do those things. Only you can decide whether to give her expectations merit.

Now it sounds to me like you wife comes from a family where that undying tribal obligation to each other, in all circumstances, is deeply rooted. I can understand why this causes you concern, for your own future family’s financial security. But I also sense that your wife would like to free herself from this unreasonable burden, you should be helping her to do so.

Raging against her sister won’t get you there. You need to be an ocean of calm in the face of her sister’s foolish financial choices, unreasonable expectations and implications of familial obligations. If you are really interested in leading your wife to where you’d like her to be regarding this nonsense, your response should be more along the lines of, “These are her choices to make. She must bear the consequences of her bad choices just as we will benefit from our good choices. Such is life!”

You needn’t judge the sisters choices, simply shrug and say, “It’s her life. It’s not what I would choose, but she’s an adult and will have to learn some of life’s lessons the hard way I suppose.”

As I see it, your best hope is to disconnect from any emotional investment in her bad life choices. This will loudly communicate to your wife, and those around you that these things will have no bearing on how you choose to conduct your life.

Wishing you Goid Luck, I know this will be a very hard thing for you to do!

Thank you for your advice. Yes, I know. Even though it always turns out that I was right saying something my wife doesn’t want to agree with me. I was saying from the beginning that her sister is not ready to have a baby now because child is not a toy but a huge responsibility. My wife was arguing with me that this is not my business, and that everyone will help. I gave up, decided to leave this up to them. It turned out her sister changed her mind and doesn’t want this baby anymore. Everyone agreed with her that she’s not ready to be a mom so she’s getting an abortion. But whatever, it’s none of my business so I don’t even discuss this with them anymore smh.
And btw I was even ready to give something to this baby but as I’m saying everybody decided they don’t want it anymore :smack:

Today I had an argument with my wife about something else: HOLIDAYS! So, for some weird reason my wife’s family doesn’t celebrate any holidays. Sometimes they plan to, but the last second they cancel their plans, change their mind, sometimes they just talk a lot and end up not doing anything for Christmas, Easter, etc. I come from a traditional family. We ALWAYS celebrate every holiday with a lot of food and close family. For those reasons we were spending every holiday in my house, because I knew that for sure my sister is not going to cancel anything. Today my wife told me that she wants us to spend every holiday with her family next year since we were with my family for Thanksgiving and now Christmas. I was seriously considering going to her family this past Thanksgiving but I was scared that they’re going to cancel the last second, so we stayed with my family. And of course it turned out the last hour that they changed their plans and barely had any food prepared plus started their dinner at 10 pm. I told my wife that if she wants to we can go and see her family after our Christmas dinner, because her family is not celebrating any holidays and I don’t want us to be hungry later. It just makes no sense to me. She got upset and said that she wants to be with her family too because this is not fair. I’d have absolutely nothing against spending next Christmas Day or Thanksgiving with her family but they’re super irresponsible. They don’t even have a Christmas Tree because they are so disorganized and they’re not doing anything this Christmas besides having a drinking party tomorrow at my wife’s cousin’s apartment. Holidays are super important to me, and it seems like my wife doesn’t get it because she never had real family Christmas. Even though she said she understands how important traditions are to me and it’s fine if we stay with my family I’m still upset. I’m seriously close to driving her next Christmas to her family’s house and leaving her there for three days :mad:

So, yes of course I understand I have to stay calm and let her family be who they are. But sometimes they’re killing me because we are so different. I try to be very accepting, I really do. It’s just exhausting.

[Ana12]

@j666

No, you don’t have to explain anything to me, but you really should re-read your posts and think about them.

It’s simple. You don’t get to make unilateral decisions. I’m not the only one pointing that out.

But you’re the only one that is annoying, did you realize? If that was your goal you achieved it, congrats :rolleyes:

[elbows]

Again, your job is not to judge them. Doing so is only going to cause conflict in your marriage. It doesn’t matter that they are disorganized, what time they eat, if they get the tree up or change plans last minute. Stop being invested in how they aren’t doing things the way you would like!

This kind of judgement of others is a terrible personal trait you need to seriously work to end, my friend. Detecting a thousand flaws in others is not nearly as important as detecting a single flaw in ourselves. Something to seriously consider. You seem kinda smart to fall into this trap.

So you go to their house and they’ve not got the tree up, are disorganized, eat very late, etc, etc. So what? You’re a grown man, for goodness sake, it’s not going to kill you. Have a snack on the way, prepare yourself that it will be chaotic and oddly put together and paste a smile on your face and get through it. It’s one day out of your life and its important to your wife so just do it. If this is the biggest sacrifice you make for her you should count your blessings.

If you can manage it, and I believe you can, you may discover after a couple of occasions, she begins to see what you see. It’s always better to see for ourselves, to come to it ourselves, when it comes to the shortcomings of those we love. Let her get there on her own. Stop pushing. Stop judging the people she comes from. When you do, she feels you’re judging her too! Just stop!

It’s never going to work if you always want to spend holidays with your family because, “They do it better/right!” This much should be blatantly obvious to a clever fellow like you, I should think. It’s not them that needs to change their ways. It’s you who need to change your judgemental ways and attitude! (Here’s a clue: “It ALWAYS turns out you’re right…” ?)

Again, wishing you Good Luck, you’re really, really going to need it!

[Ana12]

@elbows

Again, your job is not to judge them. Doing so is only going to cause conflict in your marriage. It doesn’t matter that they are disorganized, what time they eat, if they get the tree up or change plans last minute. Stop being invested in how they aren’t doing things the way you would like!

This kind of judgement of others is a terrible personal trait you need to seriously work to end, my friend. Detecting a thousand flaws in others is not nearly as important as detecting a single flaw in ourselves. Something to seriously consider. You seem kinda smart to fall into this trap.

So you go to their house and they’ve not got the tree up, are disorganized, eat very late, etc, etc. So what? You’re a grown man, for goodness sake, it’s not going to kill you. Have a snack on the way, prepare yourself that it will be chaotic and oddly put together and paste a smile on your face and get through it. It’s one day out of your life and its important to your wife so just do it. If this is the biggest sacrifice you make for her you should count your blessings.

If you can manage it, and I believe you can, you may discover after a couple of occasions, she begins to see what you see. It’s always better to see for ourselves, to come to it ourselves, when it comes to the shortcomings of those we love. Let her get there on her own. Stop pushing. Stop judging the people she comes from. When you do, she feels you’re judging her too! Just stop!

It’s never going to work if you always want to spend holidays with your family because, “They do it better/right!” This much should be blatantly obvious to a clever fellow like you, I should think. It’s not them that needs to change their ways. It’s you who need to change your judgemental ways and attitude! (Here’s a clue: “It ALWAYS turns out you’re right…” ?)

Again, wishing you Good Luck, you’re really, really going to need it!

I don’t care how they do things without me, I just don’t want to be forced to do nothing with them either. I know my flaws, trust me I’m aware of them. And I never say I’m perfect because I’m not. But the way they function it’s something I have never seen in my entire life. They’re just not celebrating Christmas or any other holidays so I don’t understand how my wife wants us to celebrate with them something they just don’t organize Because I can go and watch TV with them any other day, why does is have to be on Christmas, Easter or Thanksgiving that matter to me??? My family celebrates holidays, my wife’s family doesn’t that’s a difference. And because to her family holidays don’t have any meaning I don’t understand why I have to sacrifice.

And I’m not a man. I’m a woman, maybe that will explain something a little more.

And by saying that “it always turns out I’m right” I meant that everything I’ve ever said it’s going to happen, happened. I said nobody from her family will give us gifts for our wedding- I was right; I said they won’t be on time for our ceremony- they didn’t come at all; I said her sister is not ready to have a baby- after 3 months of being pregnant she said she’s not ready and she’s getting an abortion; I said she’ll lose her job if she keeps disrespecting her boss- she did; I said they will change their plans about Thanksgiving- they did; I said they won’t celebrate Christmas this year either- they’re not… I can keep going.

[Scribble]

@Abner_Ravenwood

If you want to bypass your sister in law, buy a US savings bond in the child’s name that matures in 20 years.

This is a great idea. You’re giving the baby a present, not the parents. BTW–in many families (or, in mine, at least) savings bonds or small contributions to college accounts are considered lovely and appropriate gifts.

My deadbeat sister and her not-all-there husband had two kids–a girl two years ago, and a boy a few months ago. I started college accounts for both my niece and nephew, because I want to do what I can to help the kids have great futures, even if their parents leave much to be desired. (And, like you, I was much more interested in giving the kids presents than in doing much for the parents at all.)