Dope about bachelor parties

In My Humble Opinion
61

Zhen… I’m entitled to my opinion. Men who kill for money are working, too. They are called murderers. To me, sex (which is not necessarily intercourse) for money is whoring. That is my opinion.

No, I don’t have a problem with it… I certainly don’t PREFER it, but I have promised him that I would never make him feel like he has to tell his friends, I’m sorry I can’t go (or make him feel like he should lie about it). Difficult concept to understand perhaps??? That is what communication is all about.

"But to denigrate the dancers/strippers reveals that she wants to place all of the responsibility on them. " I did no such thing.

“If strippers are whores and skanks, what does that make your boyfriend who wants to be entertained by them?” I call him a man who needs to know when to draw the line. If the line is crossed in a big way, I call him a pervert. Again, my opinion. He respects it.

I don’t want him to go but I also don’t want to embarrass him in front of his friends. Terrible of me, huh?

62

"Should his friends final memories of him be a broken, domesticated animal trapped in the car like a lap dog? "

No, the final memories should have been having an incredibly great time doing something else (like the many things mentioned on this thread).

Besides, there will be other bachelor parties for the alledged friends to enjoy I suspect.

63

Respectfully, Tster, I didn’t mean to come down on you, just wanted to offer my own opinion.

If “sex for money” is whoring (in your opinion), then do you consider stripping “sex?” Where do you draw the line?

I’d advise checking out some of the other threads on stripping. It’s clear (even from some of the responses in this thread, that “sex” is not a part of the strip club experience. Is a lap dance sex?

I agree that communication with your partner is important. To me, that is a given. I just wanted to know why you called strippers whores and skanks.

What is your opinion of strippers?

You seemed to paint all of them with a pretty broad brush. They all can’t be whores and skanks, can they?

Besides, equating strippers with hired killers just seems, I dunno, a tad extreme.

64

This is absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with the two of you agreeing upon what level of contact with other people is reasonable. (Mrs. Giraffe and I have always had a “no (non-incidental) touching” rule, i.e. not caressing or fondling naked women. This is an easy rule to follow, since most clubs will throw your ass out if you grab the strippers.) If he breaks that, you have every right to be pissed off, and you may choose to end the relationship over it. That would be a violation of trust.

However, you have to trust him in the first place. Interrogating him about what he’s going to do, and where he’s going to go, and who will be there, and how have they behaved at other parties, and how other bachelors behave at their bachelor parties, etc. does not give the impression of trust. You’ve said you trust him, and yet the idea of there being any veil of secrecy over the party seems to freak you out. I personally find that a little inconsistent.
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to see a strip club because you’re curious. That’s a cool thing to do. However, wanting to see a strip club so you can watch other bachelors and imagine your boyfriend in their shoes to me goes back to not showing trust.

65

I’m with Tster.

My husband didn’t have a bachelor party but I told him that if he did, I didn’t want any strippers there. He told me that he couldn’t necessarily control that and I told him that I’d talk to whomever was necessarily controlling that and make my position known. Sorry if that makes me sound like a controlling freak. As it turned out, he didn’t have one so it was a moot point.

My reasoning was that my husband has a group of friends who take the wink/wink, nudge/nudge thing to a new level. Pretty much all of the time, there’s nothing to it and designed to annoy the winkee in front of his gf/spouse. Overall, I have grown to just accept this stuff as harmless antics as they pee all overthemselves while they “bust each other’s chops” har har! But, I just didn’t feel like living the rest of my life being tormented by stupid wink/winks about a bachelor party. It’s hard to explain. I trust my husband 100%, but I just didn’t want to deal with it.

66

Hmmm. I do trust him. I don’t trust his friends (I certainly don’t know them well enough) and I don’t trust the alcohol.

“However, wanting to see a strip club so you can watch other bachelors and imagine your boyfriend in their shoes to me goes back to not showing trust.” On the contrary, I’m hoping to see the worse case scenario so I won’t have to use my all-too-vivid imagination. I trust him not to sleep with her. I trust that he won’t lie to me. I trust that he won’t do something that he specifically promised me that he wouldn’t do. But until I see what’s going on there, I really am too naive about it.

It’s easier to discuss boundaries when we have concrete ideas about how far they could potentially go.

With all this said, I do want to point out that my bf (of almost 2 years) and I (both in our 30s) are not engaged yet. This is all hypothetical (I believe in learning about this kind of stuff before it becomes an issue… he would have plenty of time to back out, or avoid, any commitment that he couldn’t handle).

There have been many interesting posts, though. I find the topic fascinating because of the wide variety of opinions.

67

If he does it because he “respects” your opinion, then he is still a “pervert” in that left to his own devices he’d be going to the strip club . If he doesn’t know where the line is drawn all by himself, then you are ill matched. You won’t be able to babysit him his whole life, he is going to have to show independant judgement - and if his judgement is that skewed from yours, you are making a huge mistake.

I know plenty of men that don’t do strip clubs. It isn’t a matter of “all guys do and its your job to change that.” If this is a big deal to you, find a guy who agrees with you. If it isn’t a big deal with you, don’t make a big deal out of it. But don’t try and change the guy - 'cause they really don’t change for you, they just play along and end up resenting it later.

68

I’m certainly not trying to change him. He is making choices of his own free will. We are perfectly matched, although on this topic we have varying opinions.

Yes, he is sometimes perverted in my opinion & he knows how I feel. I don’t think “perverted” is a horrible term, guys seem to get very insulted at it.

“If he doesn’t know where the line is drawn all by himself, then you are ill matched.” - Oh, come on… I think there is a point where all guys (hell, women too) grow up and fall in love and realize that some things aren’t really as important as they used to be. Yes, “left to his own devices” (as a single guy), of course he did things that he wouldn’t do now. I know I am not proud of all I have done while single.

“'cause they really don’t change for you, they just play along and end up resenting it later.” - Yeah, weak guys do this. The real men will be honest and discuss these issues without being afraid. Their playing along is the problem, don’t fool yourself. If he played along, it’s because he knows she has issues with it and he should have been honest up front. Then, if the relationship didn’t work out, it was based on honesty and not lies.

69

No, baby, his friends bailed on him. This night was supposed to be all about the groom, and his lame-ass brothers and supposed friends abandoned him when he wouldn’t go to the strip club. I have to wonder about any friendship where someone would leave the guest of honor sitting by himself just to go to the titty bar.

This is, for me, a shining example of the mentality I absolutely effing hate. This bachelor party wasn’t about the groom, it was about the titties. If it had really been about the groom, either the original plan wouldn’t have included a strip club, or the other guys would have found something else to do. (I also have to wonder about any friend who would deliberately go out of his way to get you to do something he knows good and well would hurt and upset someone you love, but that’s another issue.)

I also submit that not only is a groom who sleeps with a hooker at his bachelor party a dirtbag, whoever arranged for the hooker to be there in the first place is an absolute scumball. It’s bad enough to hide infidelity for someone, but to go out of your way to make it easier for them? That’s just assholish. Anyone bringing a whore to Dr. J’s bachelor party would suffer the Wrath of Tamara in a big way, let me tell you. I don’t try to undermine their relationship with him, and I expect the same courtesy and respect in return.

Dr.J’s bachelor party was, by the prevailing standards here, pretty lame. Nary a stripper in sight. Lots of booze, though, since we were in New Orleans after all. Lots of his friends (male and female) and their SO’s (male and female) took him to a couple of jazz clubs and they sat around listening to good music. They didn’t do the naked women thing because he’s just not into that. He’s very much into good music, though.

The only guideline I sent him out with was this: You can look till your eyeballs rupture and fall out of your head, but anything you touch another woman with is coming back to North Carolina in a box.

70

I didn’t get any strippers or blowjobs or sex at my bachelor party. :frowning: Heck, I didn’t even get any booze.

I don’t know what my wife did on her bachelorette party, but I figure if there was anything “nasty,” she would have told me. Since she didn’t, I trust that there was nothing for me to give two toots about.

But yeah, another vote for those who think Tster might be having some issues with control and trust.

71

There were no strippers, lap dances, or anonymous sex opportunities for me before I got married. If the purpose of a bachelor party is to have “one last fling” as a bachelor, well… I didn’t go to strip clubs or get lap dances or anything BEFORE I was engaged. If I truly wanted to celebrate things I was most likely giving up, it would have made the most sense for me to wander about the house in my underpants, scratching myself and belching freely. :smiley: (As it happens, and to Mrs. Bricker’s chagrin, I have not actually entirely vouchsafed those activities, but I digress).

With that said, I don’t think Tster’s approach is all that great. While she’s said repeatedly that she trusts her future fiancé, she belies that trust every time she expresses skepticism about the alcohol, the friends, the semi-mythical no-tell rule, and the like. Trust means trust. “I trust him not to steal, as long as there’s not huge piles of money laying about,” is not a sterling endorsement.

  • Rick
72

Of course you are entitled to your uninformed opinions.

I’ve already mentioned how much I trust him. He is truly the most honest guy I know. I know he wouldn’t do anything that I would have a real problem with. The key is to make sure he understands what I have a real problem with (first, I have to understand what I would have a problem with, which is why we will go to the strip club). Tell me how this is controlling.

I am trying really hard to understand, unlike many women I know so please give me a little slack (and quit showing off your manliness).

When I found out that he went to a nude beach a few times a year (because he was honest & told me), I was initially horrified. After discussing it on this board and with friends, I decided to go and see for myself, which was the perfect thing to do. We had a blast.

This is not about trust guys. Don’t use that as an excuse. I can trust him and still be uncomfortable with things that he might do. Perhaps once you understand that perspective, you will be able to understand a common woman’s point of view.

73

We have established that my brother is whipped and I’m a jackass, and I will not try to defend myself. I was originally trying to make a point about trust, and I obviously failed to make the point.

74

I’m disturbed at the lack of looking at things from the other side, so to speak. Maybe I just have really wild girlfriends, but I’ve been to a couple bachelorette parties that made me blush and damn, I’ll try just about anything once. I’ve never been to one that involved eating at a restaurant, and giving gifts and going home sober. They have usually involved strip clubs (male) or heavy drinking in general. I’m just trying to point out that it works both ways, and the boys aren’t the only ones who wanna cut loose before they tie the knot.

Here’s an example. My best friend, after a very long engagement, was finally getting married. She had chosen another one of our friends to be the maid of honor – the chick who gets to arrange the bachelorette party, among other duties. She (the MOH) brought a bunch of safety pins and life savers and proceeded to give the bride a new t-shirt and make the rest of us pin the life savers all over her clothing in strategic places. Then we took the Bride out to The Flats in Cleveland (a bunch of overpriced bars on the waterfront). And proceeded to sell life savers for $1 each – the MOH allowed random strange men to hand the bride a dollar so they could bite the life savers off the bride – they weren’t allowed to use their hands.

As a friend of both the bride and the groom, I found this patently offensive. I am and was very protective of others’ relationships and I thought, if Hubby To Be saw this, he would probably be a little pissed off about all those strange men mauling his future wife. Hell, if we’d pinned the life savers to the groom and sold bites for a dollar, I would have expected the Bride to not be thrilled about it much either. I just didn’t think it was appropriate to invite strangers to put their hands and mouths on my friend, when she was clearly betrothed.

Turns out, it was all in good fun and I was the only one being a stick in the mud. So I shut up about it and went along with the shenanigans for the night. The rest of which consisted of bar hopping, many shots and just finding a good place to dance and drink – which is what we girls always did together anyway. I do not know if anyone ever told the groom what happened that night. IIRC, the bride sort of minded – she looked over some male shoulders and rolled her eyes at me, but she was game and went along with things, although I don’t think the life saver game would have been her first choice of entertainment. She certainly wasn’t pissed about it.

So, tell me Tster, how would you feel about the Life Saver game? How would your SO feel about the Life Saver game? Look at it from both ways now… And then, what about you? Don’t you have any intentions of cutting loose right before the wedding.

75

I don’t think that this is the point Tster is trying to make but it’s something I wonder about.

I completely trust my husband. I have also been in the business world a while and have seen, with my own two eyes, how someone who is seemingly completely trustworthy can wander down a different path, if all the ingredients are there.

I mean, how much are you supposed to blindly trust someone? What is so wrong about saying, you know, this seems like a recipe for a not good situation?

I remember wanting to go to a sleep over prom party. My dad trusted me. He said, “I just don’t see what good can come out of it” but let me go anyway. And I was thinking about his statement right after I drank a beer with cut glass in it (I was fine but freaked for a while) because someone had broken something over my drink. I’m horrible at analogies, but what I’m trying to say is, why does trust have to be so all or nothing?

76

Dog… you have good points. I’ve heard of the lifesaver game. If she was wearing a bikini, I would perhaps change my mind but over a tshirt it seems innocent enough (I wouldn’t do it, I want no strange guy trying to bite my tit).

Hmmm, cutting loose? Perhaps. But it would be nothing I would be embarrased about or ashamed of. If my friends wanted to bring me to a strip club & my bf didn’t care, I would go. I will probably end up going dancing, which I do on occasion. I wouldn’t let them take any clothes off of me and I wouldn’t do anything I wouldn’t want him to do. I’m trying to look at it both ways. Would I jump into a pit of oil with my bra and panties and a naked guy? Uh, no.

One more point about control… and comparing strip clubs to golf… my bf & I frequently do things with our friends and I have never made him feel like it was something that I didn’t like, because that would be untrue. I want him to do things with his friends. I don’t want him to feel like he is “whipped” because who wants to feel that way? I enjoy my friend time & respect his.

As far as trust goes… I’m sure the women of the men who do unmentionable things at their bachelor parties trusted them, don’t you think? They wouldn’t have expected them to cheat on them. Having said that… I know my bf won’t cheat on me. I would bet my life on it.

77

Sure Dogzilla, it goes both ways. My bachelorette party was very tame (some of my friends couldn’t make it in till the day of the wedding, one of the girls who was there doesn’t drink, and another was rather pregnant), but I’ve heard of plenty of parties that get fairly wild. However, I like to think that most women wouldn’t do stuff that they know their fiances had a problem with. And I also like to think that their friends wouldn’t call them names for not wanting to do things the fiance has a problem with.

I’d be really uncomfortable with the Life Saver game, myself–don’t like strangers touching me at all. My friends know that and would never have planned such a thing for me. We had planned to get some beads and trade them on Bourbon Street, complete with photos. (I certainly have no problems with doing that, or with earning beads myself.) If Dr. J had said, on my way out the door, “Baby, I really don’t want you looking at strange men’s penises tonight while your friends take pictures. Please promise me you won’t do that,” I would have been fine with that. We would have found something else fun to do that wouldn’t make him unhappy.

I love him, and it’s very important to me that he’s happy. Knowing that he’s happy and has peace of mind is more important to me than quite a lot of activities, and it would certainly take priority over looking at naked men on Bourbon Street. And the other people who love me wouldn’t make fun of me and my priorities. No one would talk about how whipped I was, or what a psycho controlling hosebeast he was.

So how come, when a man does the same thing, he’s an object of pity and ridicule, and his wife an object of derision and anger?

And I can understand where the OP is coming from, really. I mean, if you’re not doing anything that’s going to upset me, or hurt me, or make me angry, why is it such a big deal if someone tells me what you’re doing? If you can’t tell me, the woman you’ve promised to spend the rest of your life with, about what you’re doing, why the holy hell are you doing it? I think that’s point she’s trying to make.

78

Wow, this has been a great debate and brings up some excellent points. To start with, I honest to God think the average bachelor party isn’t the all out Sexathon you imagine, it really does depend on the guys. Sure there are a lot that are like that but they pretty much run the whole range…just like guys. Some are boring as hell and some are as wild as they come. You can kind of figure out what kind of party they will have by what kind of guys they are running with. They are going to push it up to their limits. You say you don’t trust his friends…well this probably isn’t the ONLY time in your relationship you are going to have to deal with that. You wouldn’t just be marrying him - you kind of marry his friends and relatives too.

When I got married, my bacherlorette party and his bachelor party were the same night. I gave the best man money to pay for a lap dance, it ws my gift for my groom. I wasn’t threatned by that at all. Funny, looking back, I might have paid for a blow job, or worse and never known. I probably wouldn’t have felt the same about that. When it was all said and done we all met back at the best man & maid of honor’s house. I was very drunk, so was my fiancee and we went home and made love together…I’m thinking he hadn’t been fricky with anyone else cuz he seemed pretty ready to go with me.

I was kind of offended by the strippers=whores comments. I know it is onoy your opinion but that is kind of like saying waitresses=panhandlers. Well they both work for tips but it is a completely different class in my eyes. Taking your clothes off and offering only visual stimulation for money is one thing. But offering oral or other types of stimulation for money is another kind of thing completely. I don’t think they belong in the same catagory at all. I mean fashion models and actresses do roughly the same thing but they don’t get called skanks.

79

Well hell, I agree that some bachelor parties are harmless, but some certainly are not. I’ve seen grown professional, straight-laced men who wouldn’t “cheat” do nasty terrible things at bachelor parties.
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They include:

Doing an entertainer with a strap-on dildo

Putting a lollypop in their mouth while the entertainer “does” it

Getting a nasty lap dance such that the entertainer touches the penis and/or sack

An occasional blowjob

A more occassional hand-job

Watching two girls do each other and then lick things off the groom

And finally, out-and-out sex.**

These are what I can think of off the top of my head. It really is usuallly instigated by the friends if the guy is a normally good guy. And to those who say, well, if a guy can be peer-pressured into this than he has no business getting married, you’re wrong…I think the guys that do this look at it more as a right-of-passage than peer pressure…bachelor parties are odd things. I know all this from 1st hand accounts and personal experience (I was merely asked to do these things but never did)

And ** Incubus**this[quoye]Tster, I’m curious, have you ever been to a (female) strip club? Have you gotten a lap dance yourself?
[/quote]
is condescending.

Although there are guys that just look, most guys at even upscale places want the most “bang for their buck”…the most “mileage” if you will out of a lap dance. Even if there are regulations against it (without one of the minimun of 2 feet rules) you get girls who grind, touch and fondle. There are guys that actually get-off while the dancer is doing this. It makes it hard for good dancers as the skanky one get the most money for lap dances 'cause they touch the penis or sack or let the customer touch them…there are websites devoted to who gives the best lap and how far you can go.

BBJ…who lives in Dallas, home of the country’s finest dirtiest lap-dances.

80

I’m sorry if the term whore offends anyone. Sometimes good debates really count on definitions and this just happens to be mine. Sex for money = whore. If you arent’ comfortable with the term and you strip for a living, perhaps you should consider what you are doing. If it doesn’t bother you, what the hell does it matter what I think? However, like everything else, there is a line. Nothing is black and white. Would a model be a whore (she’s selling the idea of sex, too)? Not in my opinion. A woman who masterbates on the internet… I would say so. A woman who bellydances for a living (I actually liked that idea for a bachelor party… you get the sensual girls without the sexual contact), no. One who does it naked, yes.

Why do I make such exceptions? I don’t know. It’s just me. Perhaps I’ll feel differently after going to the stripclub just like I felt differently about the beach (I considered all single guys going to the nude beach perverts. I realized that most didn’t give me the time of day… and I get tons of looks on a regular beach in my bikini). Anyway, I’m sure some of them are nice person. Skank was pretty rude of me, I am just thinking of the girls on HBO’s G-string divas (I’ve watched it a few times out of curiousity) and they seem like selfish bitches who do nothing but complain about everything (“Eeew, I think he came while I was rubbing on him!”) while shoving money in their thong.

Oops, got off this topic.

The same goes for pervert. The first time I told my bf I thought certain things were perverted (the beach thing), he was EXTREMELY offended. His definition was much more about child molesters, etc. My definition is much more broad. I told him that I’ve had perverted thougths myself in my life. No big deal.