Dope about bachelor parties

I’m a little confused by everyone claiming that her going dancing with her ex is a whole other ballgame from her guy going to look at naked women. Because of the whole intimacy thing.

She’s said, time and again, that for her looking at someone naked in a sexual way, or being touched by someone who is naked (in a sexual way) is a form of sexual intimacy. So her fellow is going out to actively seek current sexual intimacy with someone else. Low-grade intimacy, to be sure, but intimacy all the same. She’s taking it on faith that the intimacy won’t go any further than looking and incidental touching. That doesn’t mean she has to be comfortable with the fact that that intimacy with another exists in the first place, or with the fact that he goes out deliberately seeking to create such intimacy.

Somehow, this current, ongoing sexual intimacy that he’s going out of his way to create is supposed to be different and less emotionally harmful than former sexual intimacy that she has absolutely interest in rekindling? Can somebody please explain it to me?

"You also continue to state that as his girlfriend, you have a right to tell him not to engage in activity X until you have had the opportunity to examine activity X in detail to determine it’s suitability for his participation, or to tell him that if he engages in activity X then you intend to engage in activity Y, which you know he doesn’t like. That is, in my opinion, a very clear-cut attempt to dictate his behavior. "

First, I didn’t say if he did, then I would. It’s irritating to be misquoted.

Second, I am not telling him not to do anything. I’m certainly not telling him he CAN’T go until I go. He has been going.

Third, you use the word dictate, which has a very negative definition. Is there not one SINGLE thing that your SO has done differently in her life simply because of the way you feel about it? Do we not all adapt to our mate to some degree? If he expresses that he does not think it’s wise for me to spend all of my extra spending money on shoes, is he dictating to me that I CAN’T?

Nope.

Don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but this is why I kept asking her about her opinion of strippers. The thing is, we all have different definitions of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. Without having more information, it sounds as though her concerns about her boyfriend going to strip clubs (infrequently, as she has stated) would be the same as if he looked at an issue of Playboy.

I’m trying to figure out if she has any issues with him looking at adult-oriented magazines or films, too. That’s looking at someone who is naked in a sexual way, IMHO. Where does she draw the line?

Myself? I look at strippers the way I look at the women in those types of magazines/films. They are separate from the person observing them–they are not a threat in any way. I cannot imagine any intimacy that would exist between a man and a woman he is looking at in a magazine. Or a woman he’s looking at in a club.

I understand that my opinion differs from hers. Just trying to understand her and help her in my own clumsy way.

Thanks for your imput.

My wife and I had a conversation last night. There was an mpg of a wild bachelorette party on the web, it had male strippers, dangly parts dangling, and one guy going around putting whipped cream on his package, walking up to the seated women, and letting the women lick it off, with varying degrees of gusto and varying levels of cleanliness after they were done.

She said if she were at that party, she would take a lick, most likely, without getting anything inserted anywhere. I would be fine with her at a party like that, doing just that. Neither of us would be comfortable with her being the aggressor in a situation like that. Likewise she would be fine with me at a bachelor party with a stripper dangling her naughty bits at me if I were seated, but not if I were up and chasing the stripper about the room, so to speak.

I have had women (and men) do kilt checks on me at Dopefests, and she has had men (and women) pull candy male organs out of her cleavage with their lips. Those are people we know, she would not do that same thing with random men in a bar. But she is OK flashing me to “random” women at the same bar.

We trust each other to act the same way when we are alone as we would with each other. I know if she were faced with a decision to do something risque or not, I am already comfortable with what her decision will be, not even knowing what that thing may be. I travel on business, to some foreign countries where I could nail some chick all night long and word would never get back to the USA. But that is not me, and she knows that. She knows I won’t do that. And if she were in the same situation, I have no worries about what her reply to some hunk would be.

THAT is Trust.

Why does it matter to you exactly where I draw the line? Sometimes I’m not even sure myself. He does look at Playboy & I knew this from the beginning. Those pictures are about beauty and not just sex & they’re usually in fairly good taste.

Does he jack off to them every night. No. That would be over the line for ME.

Does that help at all?

:smack:

I hate typos more than I hate strip clubs! :slight_smile:

Especially around these parts!
Carry on.

Uncle… every couple is different! Would you and your wife to go a swinger’s club and swap sex partners all night? Is that more trust than you share with your wife? That would be trusting that she’d love you despite anything at all physical. I suspect most people would draw the line here.

I wil ask my bf if in any circumstance, he would want my tongue on another man’s penis. You’re saying that if he says it’s not a problem that he trusts me and that if he is not comfortable with it that he doesn’t ???

I just got this email from a friend of mine:

It’s funny since in my post earlier in this thread I mentioned how I had never specifically been to a paintball game bachelor party but I could see it happenning. I had no idea this was in the works.

Anyway, I just thought it was a good example of what a typical bachelor party is like for my crew. Carry on.

Heh, that email looked a lot better on preview. Carriage returns are usually my friend. :eek:

I apologize if I seem a little relentless with my questions. I don’t mean to make you feel bad or uncomfortable. You thanked me earlier for not being “mean” like you thought others in this thread were. It matters to me simply because I don’t like it when women are mean to each other. Sorta silly to you, perhaps, perhaps not. It’s important to me that women are valued. That’s why I responded to your characterization of the strippers in the first place. That is why I have tried to be polite/nice to you.

Honestly, I’m just curious about your opinions, and I do want to help you feel better about this situation.

To me, strippers are not much different than the women in magazines. I guess I was trying (albeit in a clumsy way) to show you a different perspective.

Perhaps I’m being simplistic, but you indicated that your boyfriend looking at Playboy occasionally doesn’t bother you. I was trying to communicate that maybe he thinks (and I can’t say for sure since I don’t know him) about strippers in the same way.

Sorry if you think I’m going overboard with my questions, but it has been an enlightening “conversation.”

Okay, here’s a brief explanation: Going to a strip club has no emotional intimacy attached to it for a guy. It’s entertainment to us, pure and simple. Apparently this is not the case with Tster, nor with some percentage of other women. I recognize this as a basic difference between genders, probably. A caring couple will come to some reasonable compromise over the issue in most cases.
Continuing a friendly relationship with someone you’ve previously been physically and emotionally intimate with seems to be more threatening to a current relationship. Can it be done successfully? I’m sure it can. I’ve just never seen it done.
At a strip club there’s no touching, and you’ll probably never even get the girl’s real name, let alone have a meaningful conversation with her. With an ex, there’s certainly been intimacy on a much more significant level both physically and emotionally.
Clear things up?

Well, I must say this is quite a spirited, thought-provoking discussion. Unfortunately, only a fraction of posters have addressed the moral aspects of this issue (thank you, CrazyCatLady and Tster).

There’s a couple of observations I’ve made: clearly, boys will be boys, even right here: you all are mum regarding activities of strippers hired to perform at a private residence - THOSE activities are a lot looser than at a club.

As far as the moral issue goes, making a sexual investment with anyone other than your partner cheapens that which you have WITH YOUR PARTNER. I know you GUYS have trouble with this, since it’s “just sex” - you don’t get called ‘dogs’ for nothing…

Society’s ever-loosening mores and eroding standards have fueled insecurity amongst the best of us. Clearly I will never be able to compete with a siliconed bimbo who’s “job” it is to entice my mate. What a joke, that you morons ‘buy’ it. Furthermore, the whole ‘pussy’ comment about the man in the bus is more proof of the juvenile ‘no-girls-allowed’ mentality that excuses you guys from mature accountability. This gem: “For the guy getting married, the bachelor party is his last time he will truly be free to rock and roll all night (and party every day) with his friends before the crushing weight and responsibility of marriage, family and career responsibilities turns him into a flabby broken shell of his former self. Should his friends final memories of him be a broken, domesticated animal trapped in the car like a lap dog?” exemplifies the selfish, self-serving nature of this unevolved mentality to a ‘T’.

Lastly, it’s not about trust. It’s about boundaries. My partner and I have clearly defined boundaries that make NO allowances for another. I know my man - he’s a MAN. A man who has no interest and no susceptibility to a woman actively provoking him sexually is a rare man, indeed. Personally, I’ve never met one. And, I have a randy, checkered past of my own - so the rules are simple: no engaging of any kind, problem solved - we recognize and respect these limitations. I think that’s realistic and responsible. And it keeps it pretty simple. Morality must supercede chemistry - that’s what distinguishes a man from a dog.

My bf’s reply… “I don’t like the idea of you licking whipped cream
off anything other than me, but if it was a bicep in fun, I wouldn’t be pissed.”

What a manipulating dictator! And I thought he trusted me!

Dada… I like the way you think!

why you… reasonable couple!! How dare you!

Tster

I believe some of the point Uncle Bill was making about trust is that you wouldn’t have to ask your b/f if it was ok if you put your tongue on another guy’s penis. So what he says when you ask him a question like that has nothing to do with trust.

I can’t believe I got sucked into talking about bpartys on two boards now.

I just wanted to chime in to say that, I too, initially felt like Tster and wouldn’t have wanted my husband to have a bachelor party that featured strippers. In my situation though, it ultimately didn’t matter because neither one of ended up having festivities before the wedding.

Why did I feel that way? Because I, personally, was very insecure and since he was the first fellow I’d slept with, I thought ANYTHING sexual (from magazines to the web to clubs) was somehow a slam against our relationship. That I wasn’t enough/fulfilling for him. That he wanted someone like that versus plain old me. I freaked out a lot early on in our relationship because I projected my feelings about myself onto his feeling about visual stimulation. Never once did I question what I thought about my own proclivities, like masturbating to the idea of some ex.

Fortunately, with lots of time and patience on my SO’s part, I begin to understand that, while some may never be 100% comfortable (and again, I agree with Tster that trust is a separate issue) with these types of things, they usually are harmless, as many have previously stated. Now going back to whether or not you trust them, then even if they do choose to be aroused in a situation like that, it still isn’t any different than renting a porno or fantasizing. Because, IMHO, that’s all it is. Safely letting off some extra sexual tension. No more, no less.

But, I do think that everyone should understand where the other person is coming from and just how comfortable they are with what the other is doing. Be it going to see someone strip or dancing with an ex. I know that now, I wouldn’t care if mr. hopefool went to some rowdy bachelor party and let some stripper grind away at his crotch for multiple lap dances. It would be fun for him and I’d reap the benefits. What I wouldn’t be comfortable with would be a steady diet of attendance at one of these places because then, I’d wonder if there was some other reason we weren’t addressing, making it a need for him to find his outlet somewhere other than me.

As for as myself goes, I’ve now been to a male strip club once, in honor of my mother’s 50th birthday party and like has also been said, at least in a professional establishment, women are allowed to do much more to the men then vice versa. My mom actually liked one dance from his chest to his crotch. Ugh. Another stripper dangled his bits on a friend of our’s shoulder, touching her ear. All-in-all, I found it to be all in good fun, but something I found personally kind of uncomfortable and sleazy. Would I go again? Perhaps for my bestfriend’s bachelorette party or some other remarkable milestone, but not for myself. It’s just not my thing, like it’s not my honey’s either.

Lastly, I do understand where you are coming from overall. It’s difficult to express how you don’t really like something, but aren’t sure why, and yet refuse to dictate behavior to your mate. Ultimately though, I think you can learn (like by what you’re doing here with soliciting opinions or going to witness nude beaches/strip clubs first hand) and grow to appreciate that a lot of times, you may BE uncomfortable or quasi-unhappy about things that come up in your relationship and yet you let the trust override your uneasiness.

I think, and this is just my .02, that your best course of action is to continue talking honestly with your boyfriend, disregard a lot of stories as outright exaggeration or bragging and lastly, really closely examine your own issues about whatever has you feeling the most queasy (if I was you, I think I’d start with equating all sexually driven input with infringing upon your intimacy with him). Because it does sound like you have a good relationship and are well suited to working things out together and, you wouldn’t want to do like I did in my beginning with the hubby, let your imagination run away with you, put things that aren’t there and do any unnecessary damage.

Good luck to you both and I’m sorry that I prattled on so long.

Yes, Dogman is right. My point was; trust is knowing they will do the right thing without even knowing what it is they are doing.

And dadaK, let me introduce myself. I spent an hour in a room with a Thai Hooker in Bangkok, both of us naked. My Japanese host “bought” the event for me. I explained quietly to the young lady beforehand I wanted a massage but no hanky panky, I told her I was married and honor my vows. She was pleased about that. I got a nice bath, and a HELL of a nice (non-arousing) massage. Never once got a woody (actually, got a little chub as we were getting dressed, of all things). My traveling companions (my boss and co-worker) knew I didn’t do anything, but I told them much later, so the Japanese host would feel I accepted and enjoyed his gift.

I can turn down any woman, actively provoking me or not, when I am committed to another woman.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, too, Bill - it’s always refreshing to meet an exception to the norm.

There’s definitely more to this issue: for one thing, one’s prior track record. For example, a sober alcholic who wants to stay sober - TRULY wants to - will not put him/herself in a position of temptation. Despite their desire to stay abstinent, it’s risky. The same can be said for participants of clubbing, porn, hookers, infidelity, etc.

Hope - Sounds like you completely understand me. It’s all about a process that we go through in a relationship.

“I believe some of the point Uncle Bill was making about trust is that you wouldn’t have to ask your b/f if it was ok if you put your tongue on another guy’s penis”

Apparently I did have to ask because I really didn’t know how he would react. Just because I don’t know him in every single way and every thought he might have does not mean I trust him or don’t trust him or visa versa.

“Trust is knowing they will do the right thing without even knowing what it is they are doing.”

There are no right things and wrong things. Just how we perceive right and wrong and we seriously have to communicate these perceptions to each other (do you disagree?). She obviously realized you would be ok with that. I truly did not know how my bf would have reacted to that since it never came up in our conversation. Now I know (I’m really glad he felt the way he did)… because we discussed it, not because I trust him or he trusts me.

Poor Dog.