Regarding seeing exs… what exactly do you guys think will happen if your woman sees an ex? You said you don’t trust HIM… what do you think he would do? For arguments sake… what if it weren’t an ex but someone new that she met at work & became very friendly with and had drinks with after work a few times a week, just the two of them. Or out to dinner when you were out of town. Now, there’s no baggage. Would it matter if he was an incredibly attractive and muscular guy? Would you feel just a twinge of… something?
Let’s get back to the original issue for a second… the question of why these stripper parties are so common when there are so many women who potentially have issues with them AND why are they so secretive. The few times I went out with my ex, I certainly did not tell my bf that he didn’t need to know what we did because he needed to prove that he trusted me.
Uncle Bill - ‘And dadaK, let me introduce myself. I spent an hour in a room with a Thai Hooker in Bangkok, both of us naked’
‘dadaK’ Nice to meet you, too, Bill - it’s always refreshing to meet an exception to the norm.
I clearly need better opening lines.
Tster - ‘Apparently I did have to ask because I really didn’t know how he would react. Just because I don’t know him in every single way and every thought he might have does not mean I trust him or don’t trust him or visa versa.’
I think it means that you don’t trust him (or at least his reaction) just yet, so you felt compelled to ask. That is not a criticism of your relationship. It just hasn’t progressed to the point where these kind of discussions become unnecessary.
Hiya, Dog!!! We meet again…
Dude, you don’t NEED an ‘opening’ line - your sensitivity ‘breathes’ through the monitor (or is that hot air? Lol…)
Seriously, though, you expounded with Tster on a key point - we are who we are - knowledge of our limitations/temptations is paramount to compatibility; that’s why I say it’s about boundaries and not about trust per se, except to say that I trust my mate will use realistic discretion and set appropriate boundaries proportionate to his limitations and mine. I don’t expect my mate to be like Uncle Bill in the presence of a naked Thai hooker; it ain’t happenin’! I EXPECT him to not put himself in that position, knowing what we both know about ourselves.
Dog, it’s not that I don’t trust his reacton… I just don’t know it. Do you know the exact reaction your wife will have to every single thing that happens to her… even after all of these years?
‘Do you know the exact reaction your wife will have to every single thing that happens to her… even after all of these years?’
I know I could nail the tongue and strange penis question, and pretty much everything else that is important to me.
Uncle Bill’s point, that you continue to miss, is really no different that what hopefool said. To which you responded:
“Sounds like you completely understand me. It’s all about a process that we go through in a relationship.”
The process is just getting to know your b/f better through communication and experience.
After you go through this process, you wouldn’t have to ask the tongue and strange penis question of your b/f, because you will already know the answer, even if you haven’t asked the question.
They are common because some men like them or think that they will like them.
Some men consider it a rite of passage.
Some men go along with them because of their friends.
Some men like looking at naked women.
Some men go to clubs often, so the strip club bachelor party thing is not a big difference.
Some men are jerks who like to look at naked women even if it bothers their partners.
Some men are jerks who mess around. How women see it:
I gave you several reasons earlier about some of the objections women have with strip clubs.
In addition, from this thread (not just your responses) I have learned that some women become emotionally attached to the idea that their partners are doing something sexual without them.
Some have low self-esteem.
Some are controlling.
But…
I’ve also learned that some women don’t mind them, some like them, some tolerate them and some forbid them. Why they are secretive…
The two most obvious answers to me are that some men are jerks who lie to their partners so that they can do all sorts of bad things and some men just don’t want to cause their partners emotional strain. These men probably aren’t going to clubs/parties to see the women, they just want to celebrate an event with their friends.
Heck. All the men I have known strive to avoid conflict. Sometimes they accomplish this through lying. (Not excusing this behavior, BTW, just want to explain a little). I can see that to some men, lying or downplaying what goes on at these parties helps to avoid conflict.
I don’t know how else to answer your questions, but I hope that you’ve found some information to use to better understand your feelings on the subject. I enjoyed sharing my opinions and hope that you and your boyfriend are successful in establishing the boundaries necessary for a successful relationship.
Since I’ve seen how lengthy my responses have been, I gotta say that X~Slayer(ALE)'s quote about the Tom Jones concert probably sums up my feelings on the subject.
It doesn’t make you untrustworthy and controlling. You’re doing a great job on confusing some people on this board, however.
When you make statements that basically define right and wrong in one post. Then, make statements about compromise in another. This sounds, to people who don’t know you, confusing and potentially controlling and manipulative.
Especially to guys. Am sure your b/f has you figured out however.
The bike thing is funny but not all women agree, including me. I prefer to do the pumping prior to my ride. He had plenty of pumpers before me met me. If he wants a different one now, he can ride his own bike (if you know what I mean).
You did sum it up very nice.
Interesting point about avoiding conflict. It’s a weak person’s way out and this is what I am not doing. I am hitting this issue strait on so that we will understand each other, not have to lie to each other. These same men that would lie about this would say I don’t trust my man. Go figure.
Not sure those charges really apply at this point. I think you’ve made your point more clear, and I for one respect you for talking about it.
Now I’m not sure I buy this “boundaries vs. trust” argument. I think if you can establish a trusting relationship, then either of you will not approach anything like a “boundary” in most cases, including what we’ve been talking about here. Trust means, in some part, knowing your SO’s comfort level with things. And respecting that. Maybe dadaK and I are approaching the same point from different angles, hell. “It’s all about a process that we go through in a relationship.”
This is a confusing issue. It’s not black and white. It’s about definitions and women’s feelings and men’s egos. I’m trying to sort through it too.
They certainly won’t be the first men in the history of our world to be confused by a woman… especially one who strives to think things very through. Men really have a difficult time understanding us, which is why I’m trying really hard to explain myself in many different ways. One problem is that I’m not a dummy and this tends to bother some men. They don’t like a woman who has a mind of her own and can make their positions seem illogical and/or selfish and therefore they call me manipulative.
It’s a journey, not a destination. Sometimes my ideas do change because I learn.
krisolov ‘Now I’m not sure I buy this “boundaries vs. trust” argument.’
It always appears to me that some people roll out boundaries when trust has been violated. They also say that if they established boundaries at first, some problems could have been avoided.
I think in many cases, this is just saying ‘if I handled things differently, it would have been better’, instead of being honest with themselves and saying ‘you know, I just picked the wrong guy’.
I doubt many women could come up with a complete list of boundaries to cover any bparty situation, better to rely on trust.
The problem with that thinking is that most people getting married do not have 20 years of knowledge of that person to fall back on. It has to start somewhere, doesn’t it? Trust is built over years. It starts with boundaries… if they are overstepped over and over, the trust does not build.
Some problems can definitely be avoided if boundaries are set initially. Try to imagine your marriage in the first few years, not now after so many.
‘Try to imagine your marriage in the first few years, not now after so many.’
Don’t have to imagine. Lived through it. Never set boundaries. Didn’t need to. Had trust. Have ms. dogman and I did things the other didn’t like, sure. But we adjusted. Marriages don’t always get stronger because of problem avoidance. They can get stronger through problem resolution. That, I believe, is a more realistic approach rather than attempting to set boundaries up front.
You’re from South Florida. Coach Bobby Bowden of Florida State, among the most successful college football coaches of all time, is taking a lot of heat for ‘lax rules’. For forgiving too much. His response, which makes perfect sense to me, is ‘hey, I usually don’t forgive them twice’. I can see why he is successful.
Setting boundaries and learning through solving real problems can both happen in a relationship. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. In your situation, you learned from your mistakes, which you made many of. Perhaps I want to spend more time enjoying my relationship and less time fighting my way to the point you are at now.
Nope, but I did commit to a level of trust when we got married. You are right, there can be many approaches. But . . .
I’ve noticed that whenever a male has suggested an approach, even one that has worked, you tend to discount it, presuming men just make mistakes and have to fight their way to success.
When ever a female has suggested an approach (even the same one) you tend to agree. When you make comments such as
‘It’s about definitions and women’s feelings and men’s egos’
you come off as extremely sexist and egotistical. women do have egos. Makes some of us males doubt your stated ability to learn (at least from men).
I learned that the best course of action would be to go to a nude beach (from a man) and to see the strip club for myself (from a man)… both on boards.
“Nope, but I did commit to a level of trust when we got married” - A level of trust?
By the way, I’m not discounting your approach. You also come off as very egotistical (in fact, I think this is an understatement) but I do value your opinion and you know this.