How do I keep from getting stuck in the "acquaintance zone"?

OK, I just looked at the second link, about your hair.

I saw the picture you linked in that thread and I’ve got to be honest: your hair sucks. It’s weird loner hair. I think it’s time to renegotiate with your parents about the hair situation. One compromise might be Aveda. Their products are expensive, but claim to be all natural. Their salons are expensive too but give pretty decent cuts, and can advise on how to style your hair so it looks good. If they won’t shell out for either of those, go full on 16 year old and freak the geek out on them. Or just go behind their back and buy some cheap chemical-filled gel from Target.

Putting visible effort into your appearance can help you socially. It’s not everything, but it’s something.

Yeah, I have actually improved my looks and how I style my hair now (they got me gel that doesn’t have the “chemicals” or whatever in it and it works fine). I also dress reasonably well. That’s all I have time to post right now. I will return later to reply to the others.

Maybe it’s just me and my background, but when I was in high school (early 90’s) a line like “I like your sweater” meant one of two things: 1) you’re gay and you appreciate women’s fashion, or 2) you’re desperate to ask her out, but not confident enough to do so.

It’ll only take the girl about a minute to figure out which one of them you are and either way, she’s probably not excited about dating you, is she?

If you’re going to walk up to a girl and ask her out, then just DO IT! Say “I think you’re pretty and I’d like to get to know you. How about a burger/movie/coffee/whatever tomorrow after school?” All those confident people you’re talking about mostly do it this way.*

Now, this isn’t the only approach that will work. I don’t use it. I’m not even sure I’d recommend it… others have given you good advice about building a network of friends. But if you’re going to go after random girls you have crushes on, you need to be confident and direct.

*There’s an interesting research study that kind of backs this up. Some researchers went to a college campus and starting asking random people of the opposite gender the outright question “Do you want to have sex with me?” About 75% of guys said yes and about 95% of girls said no, which is not so surprising from conventional wisdom. But here’s the nugget of insight I take away from that: 5% of the girls said yes! So if you’re willing to be confident and direct, and willing to hear “No” 19 times for every “Yes,” then in the end, you’re going to get laid by someone.

So…you come off as boring. I mean, that’s what you’re describing here, how people react when they find you uninteresting to talk to. Most boring people have no idea what to talk about and just let random uninteresting crap flow and don’t take the hint that the other person doesn’t care about any of their random topics. It sounds like you’re basically *interviewing *reluctant girls and people don’t like that: when’s the last time you heard a person being excited about being forced to talk about themselves during a job interview? When people say you should ask a girl about herself, they’re not telling you to just ask her a bunch of questions. They’re trying to remind the sort of guy who is in love with talking about himself that conversation is give and take. It’s okay to talk some about yourself, but it should be in the spirit of “this is something I like/do/am interested in, and I want to know if you are too.”

What are your own interests? TV? Music? Art? Instead of peppering them with random questions, try talking about a single shared interest, but usually this works best if you let them start the conversation and make a comment about what they’ve said. Maybe in a group setting, like over lunch with other people so you’re not forced to start the conversation with them (instead ask the group about a topic of interest, and let everyone respond, then focus on what the girls say if they join in), which doesn’t seem to be working for you. Or just be super simple, and ask them what they watched last night or what song they’re listening to. If they’re receptive to that, keep going on the same sort of topic - if it’s a TV show, ask what their favorite episode was, or do you remember the episode when X did Y. If music, talk about other songs by that band, or say that they’re good but have you ever listened to this other band you like?

If that’s too hard a way to start, take the opportunity to commiserate when they complain about that test you just took too, or the fact that Mr. Johnson’s a real jerk to assign a 5 page paper on a Friday.

They always told me. “Ask her questions!1!1!” Sorry, it’s just that that’s the advice I have gotten so many times when I asked about this. So what do I do?

Yes, that is something I am worried about - theoretically being alone forever. I read about these 30-year-old dudes that have never had a girlfriend and I really don’t want to end up like them.

That’s what I was asking in this post. The whole getting a circle of friends advice. How do I do this? Click on that post for more details.

See, this is what I am afraid of. I read online that a lot of girls think that any sort of compliment about their appearance even if it’s done in a nice way, is creepy, if done early on (they prefer for you to wait a while). I am afraid of being labeled as creepy and that’s why I have been trying to go “indirect” as they say where you take a little time before you start flirting with them (but I never got to this point so…)

Really? Like I said above, I am afraid of girls labeling me as a creep if I take this approach. But is this really how they do it? I was going to ask - because I actually searched this up too, about asking a girl out right away, and a lot of girls said that this would creep them out and they would prefer if a guy took a little time first.

So you’re telling me that it’s viable for me to go up to that girl I have a crush on and ask her out immediately like that (ex. “Hey, I think you are cute and was wondering if you want to go for a walk in the park or something this weekend?” or something like that)?

Okay, thanks. This is actually addressing my issues. You’re right. The bolded is exactly what’s going on with me, except that I do take the hint and as a result have to end the conversations early and am never able to get a fluid, flowing conversation going. A lot of people have been advising me to “ask her about herself”, and that never really works. So can you please further explain what I should do instead of asking her a string of questions (like I do currently). I am still unclear on that.

My interests/hobbies are: violin, League of Legends, tennis, and watching soccer currently. But you explained what to do when they are receptive. What do I do when they are not? That’s what seems to happen. For example, I asked my crush the other day about the FIFA World Cup and if she follows it and she was like, “No…”

R3d, you are a tightly wound kind of guy. If you put off half as much tension in person as you do in your writing, people are going to actively avoid you. Why? Because humans are empathic, and when they sense your tension, they will subconsciously figure that a) something is about to kill and eat you or b) you’re going to try to kill and eat them. Either way, they’re going to bet that it’s not a good idea to stick around.

I’m sure you’ve heard it and read it a thousand times: you’ve got to relax. Isn’t that a useless thing to tell someone? Hey, Mr. Tense, relax!. Like you had no idea you were tense, and this well timed bon mot has you slapping your forehead in amazement. Great Og, why didn’t you think of that?!

Here are some practical tips:

  • get involved in some activity that requires both gross motor (that is, big muscle) activity at a rate which makes it impossible to be self-conscious, and if at all possible, make it something that involves socialization. I’m talking martial arts, square or folk dancing, parkour, SCA heavy weapons combat, color guard drill, agility dog training, or zombie runs.

Playing violin (you said you play violin, right?) is all well and good, but it’s fine motor activity, and the level of precision required just ratchets up the tension. You need something that is absorbing, exhausting, challenging, and takes you outside of your head. The more social, the better. The more you can relieve your stress, the less self-aware you are, then the more relaxed you will be, and the more comfortable others will be around you.

  • stop worrying about your peers and start seeking out people who are several years younger and several years older than you. It takes the pressure off of you when you are on a completely different level than the person you’re with. If you’re a homework buddy for a fourth grader, he doesn’t care if your hair is gelled or too long. He cares that you can tell a good fart joke. If you’re volunteering at a VA center, a nursing home, or a community center, that little old lady won’t care if you can’t think of anything to talk about. She’ll do all the talking, and she’ll love you for listening. Ask her to tell you stories about when she was your age. Gossip with her. Tell her you need practice just making small talk.

The thing is, R3d, your problem is not getting a girlfriend. Your problem is connecting with other human beings. Right now, you’re trapped in your own head. When you look at another person, all you’re thinking about is what you want from them, and how you’re probably going to mess up and be rejected by them. Start asking yourself questions about people, all people. Why is your English teacher cranky today? Did she stay up too late watching episodes of Game of Thrones, or is her father suffering from dementia and calling her names? That guy at Starbucks, why is he wearing that t-shirt? Is it a favorite? Is there a story behind it?

I stumbled across the following poem by Sir Thomas Browne recently:

If thou could’st empty all thyself of self,
Like to a shell dishabited,
Then might He find thee on the ocean shelf,
And say, “This is not dead,”
And fill thee with Himself instead.

But thou are all replete with very thou
And hast such shrewd activity,
That when He comes He says, “This is enow
Unto itself - 'twere better let it be,
It is so small and full, there is no room for Me.”

Replace God with other people. When you spend all your time thinking about yourself (or your hair, or your lack of a girlfriend, or your inability to flirt), you leave no room for others to enter your life.

Yes you’re right. So many people (except people at school of course because why would they) like on other message boards and my parents keep telling me to “relax” over and over again. And actually I probably worry and stress more than indicated in my posts. I really do. In fact, by default, my state is being stressed out. It’s actually uncommon for me to be relaxed! I wallow over things that I haven’t even experienced, but anticipate experiencing and start thinking, “Shit, what will I do then? That will suck!”

Yep, phouka you pretty much summed up my issues and I couldn’t have said it better myself.

This is what I like about the SDMB. I noticed on other message boards, they don’t do quite as good of a job of being able to tell precisely what’s going on with me in detail. But you people are able to dissect my posts quite well and expose the exact issues that I am having. Thanks for that.

Girls don’t have to be different than guys to talk to. Some girls are only interested in having discussions about Cosmo magazine and fashion and shoes, but then you don’t want to talk to them anyway, right? There’re plenty of girls out there who share a few interests with you, no matter what your interests are. For example, I’m a gamer lady. My fiance and I play games together and talk about games a lot. What’s your passion?

In general, it’s not a bad idea to make friends with girls (real friends, not just walking vaginas you hope will drop their pants later) so you can learn how to talk to them generally.

If I can put you on the spot, what do you think you should do to improve your lot in life?

And no, you can’t say, “that’s why I’m here asking for advice.” You have to rattle off three suggestions to yourself right now.

Go!

This.

It depends what sort of comment, and more importantly on the context.

At work, it’s utterly inappropriate. At school, still pretty inappropriate. At a party or a nightclub, or even at a coffeeshop, something like ‘I like your shoes!’ or 'I like your nail polish", can be appropriate.

What you need to do, is find a couple girls you can talk to and enjoy yourself around. I know you have a couple female friends that you talk to and who will actually talk back. Everybody has them in high school. These aren’t girls you are interested in, and thus you are relaxed around them. Ask them out for coffee or lunch or some activity where the two of you can talk one-on-one. Meet them and just talk. Talk, talk, talk. Learn how to communicate and make her laugh. Do this as much as you can.

Once you get used to conversing with females, then you can find yourself having real conversations with hot girls. Girls can sense desperation. Spending any quality time with any girl will drain your pool of desperation. Eventually, you will be calm and not freaking out with girls you really like. At that point, you will go from “random stranger” to “funny guy who plays the violin” to “cute guy who I’m meeting for dinner on Friday.”

I’m telling you, learn how to make her laugh. That is the lubricant to all interaction with the opposite sex.

Wait what?

I was thinking of something along the lines of telling them that they’re cute.

And I think this is where it gets confusing for me, where people give different advice. You got one guy saying, “Go up to her and tell her that she’s pretty and ask her out right away,” and then another guy telling you, “No, become friends first and then ask her out,” and then people in between.

You need to invite her to do activities that don’t involve talking so much. Hiking, movies, etc. You also need confidence to brave a slight pause in the conversation. Simply smile and look into her eyes, and let a tiny bit of tension build.

I didn’t say that. I generally agree with 'Go up to her and…ask her out", etc… I just wanted to add the caveat that you need to be aware of situations where expressing a potential ‘interest’ is appropriate, and situations where it’s not. Workplace is almost never appropriate- in purely social situations, go ahead. School is sort of in betweern.

kinda offtopic, but a better controlled version of the study found that straight men asking straight women has a 0% success rate. Women asking straight women has around a 20% success rate, if you control for people in relationships.This basically means that for casual sex, the expected chance of being sexually satisfied is the main determinant.

No I know. I just added that part about being confused afterwards. I wasn’t responding to you there. I was just questioning you saying that school can be inapproproiate and kind of puzzled because I thought that school was the place for this during your teenage years.

In my experience both as a chick and as someone who likes to give little compliments: compliment things the other person has had an active role in doing, choosing, etc.

Of course some people will like being told they’re cute, or have pretty eyes, or whatever. However, physical features are often something they have had no control over. So in a way, your compliment isn’t about THEM-them, but about how random chance (genetics, etc) happened to result in something you find attractive.

If you compliment someone on, say, their glasses frames, or their badass leather jacket, or their nail art, or the book they’re carrying (NOT reading at the moment you decide to butt in on their reading time ;)), you’re telling them you appreciate something about who they are - they chose their glasses frames for personal reasons (favorite color, wanted to look like X tv show character, etc), they chose their leather jacket for personal reasons (their personal style, their archetype they want to emulate, etc), they chose… You get the idea. These compliments show you appreciate something that they themselves also appreciate, which not only hints that you find them attractive but also that you share something (even if it’s as small as liking sky blue nail polish) in common. Does that make sense?

I’m going to disagree with this. School and workplace at 16, asking people of the same age out, is appropriate. Being a creepy persistent jerk isn’t, but that’s not cool in any setting. Going up to the cute girl in your English class and saying “Hey, I’m going to the diner after school to prep for that test and get some coffee, wanna come?” is A-OK IMHO.

I love the advice to start working out. Physical activity will help you chill out and if you feel better about your body you’re going to be more confident.

Giraffe’s advice to take an objective look at your appearance is good, too. I don’t think you need to be a carbon copy of the popular kids (and when I was a 16 year old girl I wouldn’t have gone for that but I might not be the kind of chick you’d be interested in anyhow) but make sure you’re not raggedy looking.

About asking questions: there’s a way to do so that doesn’t sound like an interview. Ask questions in a way that invites more than a yes or no answer and follow up on what they say even if it’s a bland response from them. To take your soccer example:

“Are you following the World Cup?”
“No”
“Why not? Do you not like soccer in general or are you just burnt out on all of the World Cup coverage?”

Just to make sure…

So you guys are telling me that it’s viable to go up to that random girl you like, and immediately ask her out, for example like:

Or is that creepy/inappropriate?

If it isn’t, this is actually good because it simplifies things and I don’t really have to do much except gather up the courage and do it (easier said than done, but still). Especially because a lot of times, I may have one or no classes with my crush and so it’s extremely difficult to do what I try to do (taking time and becoming acquainted with her first). I think that was part of the frustration - that often times the girls I crushed on I wouldn’t see very often or have that much of a chance to talk to, so I didn’t know how to go about it. But if you’re telling me that it’s acceptable to just simply walk up to her and be that straight-forward, that’s actually a good thing for me because that solves that problem.

My only fear is that I read somewhere that this kind of cold approach isn’t viable in high school and if you do it too much, you can end up attaining a reputation for being that creepy guy. So I wouldn’t want to do it too much (if at all). Then again, it’s not like I have a new crush every day, so…