I promise you it can help. Take the money you’d spend normally spend on alcohol this weekend and go buy some nice new running shoes.
Eh, the disease model is an analogy that helps many people understand alcoholism. Alcoholics, as far as anyone can tell, are wired differently than non-alcoholics. They can’t help that wiring. What they can do is choose to drink that first drink or not. Not a whole lot of coddling goes on at meetings.
The steps are all about taking personal responsibility. You own what’s yours to own and you let other people worry about their stuff. You stop thinking you’re a special little snowflake who has it so tough that of course she has to drink. One of the mottos is “do the next right thing.” Doesn’t that suggest personal responsibility?
Willpower is a bit tougher, because once an alcoholic has had the first drink, willpower exits the scene. You certainly need willpower not to pick up that drink. Sometimes it’s lacking–so it’s good to have some phone numbers and a few meetings to go to. Lots of people talk about turning their will over to God, lots of people don’t.
As for relapsing, I’ll repeat what I said earlier. No, relapsing is *not *part of recovery in any kind of programmatic or theoretical sense. It’s not a given. Some people do, some don’t. Some relapse early and often, some go years without a drink and then relapse. Some never relapse. The approach is pragmatic–relapses happens, if you relapse we’re glad to see you back.
They don’t mean they want to drink they way they did when they were first sober. It’s the difference between remembering the nightmare you had last night and being right in the middle of it.
As to the “No Alcoholic can ever, ever have a drink because, if he does, he will lose all self-control and drink himself into the gutter” mindset:
BULLSHIT!
Either I am not an alcoholic (which would surprise me and half a dozen MD’s) or at least one “alcoholic” CAN have a glass of wine with a meal, and a beer or two with his pizza. There is a bottle containing a few ounces of vodka on a shelf in the pantry. I has been there since 2010 or 2011.
I don’t know if the “disease model” helps or hinders the cause, but, IF it is a disease, I am here to state that it CAN be cured. The cure probably does not provide lifelong immunity, but it is a cure.
I do not believe I am in any greater risk of becoming an alcoholic than anyone else.
I think I’ve read most of the pages of this thread, as I’ve been and out of it since it started. While debating AA is all well and good, I’ve not seen many urging the OP to seek substance-abuse specific medical treatment.
AA is a form of support, not active treatment. I would recommend the OP get evaluated by a licensed chemical dependency clinician (or whatever they’re called in his state) and get some formal treatment. It doesn’t have to be inpatient for the first try. In fact, most insurances will refuse to pay for inpatient/residential treatment until the insured has attempted (and failed) a lower level of care.
Find your local mental health hotline, and see what’s in your area. Intensive outpatient, outpatient, and various other types of treatment are available. And they can help.
HMS, feel free to PM me, if you want more assistance on finding programs in your area or have other questions. I’m more than happy to point you the right direction.
– Phoebestar, Licensed Independent Social Worker- Supervisor (LISW-S). Also, sister to two addicts.
Yes, formal treatment can help a lot. If you can afford it, by all means check it out. Even the intensive programs can fit into a work schedule. They will require that you stay sober, though, and any prescription drugs will have to be re-evaluated.
What is this magical cure that you possess that millions of people and a ton of doctors have never found? Note, to be a cure it needs to be repeatable.
And the statement ‘The cure probably does not provide lifelong immunity, but it is a cure’ makes absolutely no sense. Either you are cured or you aren’t. Being ‘cured’ for a limited period of time isn’t being cured.
Now, every time I see someone react the way you are, with exaggerated ‘BULLSHIT!!!?!?’ type responses, I have to wonder what exactly does it matter to you? You believe that you have an alcohol problem and you believe you are cured. Good for you, drink away. Yet why in the world are you going to imply to someone who is having serious issues with drinking that drinking is just fine? What about another person being sober and using A.A. to do so bothers you so much?
I don’t care if others drink. Their life is their own.
I don’t care if alkies get sober by going to church, beating their wives* or flogging themselves. I will suggest the best method that I know of and I will point out when people give out information that will probably hurt the person seeking help, but other than that I don’t care.
Phoebestar, treatment was mentioned a couple times but HMS did not want to go that route IIRC.
Slee
*Exaggerating. Only football players and politicians can beat their wives and get away with it.
I can’t do inpatient and I probably really don’t need it. OTOH intensive outpatient sounds interesting, this is the first I’ve heard of it. In any case, here’s a maybe trivial thing I worry about, but I’ve heard that a history of substance treatment can make it difficult to get life insurance or health insurance in the future. True or false?
At the community mental health agency where I work, intensive outpatient consists of 3 hours of group 3 times a week, with individual sessions as needed (weekly to every few weeks.) Most of our clientele pays little or nothing to attend, as I am in state with Medicaid expansion, coupled with a county mental health board that is motivated to reduce sequalae from substance abuse, has made that possible.
The quality of treatment from community mental health agencies varies widely, so I can’t speak to how things are in your area. However, I have great confidence in the substance use disorder team in our agency (I am on the mental health side of things.) There is no bans on taking prescribed medications as directed while in treatment (i.e. Klonopin), although a visit with a psychiatrist may be in order.
There are also many private treatment programs out there for outpatients. They do tend to have times more closely aligned with a work day, as most of their clientele are working. Outpatient individual substance abuse counseling is also available, and may fit your needs better for now. They’d let you know if you needed anything more intense.
Like I said, PM me if you need additional info in your area.
As for the health insurance thing, I think pre-existing conditions are not allowed to exclude you from coverage. It might make it more expensive. However, the laundry list of problems that come from long-term alcohol use (gastric issues, liver, etc.) would also cause those same rate hikes, so don’t use that as a reason to not get treatment.
Good luck!
Phoebestar
The alcoholism is a disease theory – perhaps calling addiction as a mental illness would be a better method. After all, you wouldn’t tell someone with depression to “just snap out of it”. It’s similiar to OCD in a way – you KNOW your obsessions are bullshit. You KNOW you don’t have to keep counting and checking things. But you can’t fucking stop.
Think of it this way: let’s say you have an itch on your leg. And you know if you scratch it, you’ll only make it worse. So okay, you just won’t scratch it. But as the day goes on, it just keeps itching, and itching, and itching, and getting worse and worse, until you can’t stand it. And you think, “well, one little scratch won’t hurt.” But that relief only lasts so long.
It’s like that with addiction. Addiction isn’t rational because mental illness isn’t rational.
Bolding added.
This is perhaps one of the most irrational assertions I’ve EVER heard in ANY context.
Yeah, we can run a series of antibiotics and make all the germs die, but, since you might, in 30 years, contract the disease again, we can’t call the treatment a “cure”.
Maybe the term “in remission” would be more appropriate?
I have major depressive disorder. It might be well-treated and I show no symptoms. However, if I were to stop the things that ameliorate the symptoms (e.g. medication, self-care), it would likely recur. I feel alcoholism falls in that category (and so does the DSM 5, the mental health diagnostic bible.)
Phoebestar
Alcohol doesn’t just fuck you up mentally. It can wreck hell on you physically. That’s what happened to my godmother.
Yeah - always appealing to describe something as a mental illness. Alleviates them from responsibility, and enables other to profit from “treating” it. Sure, many people have addiction, depression, PTSD, whatever of a severity which warrants treatment. But, IMO, nowhere near as many as purport to. Really tempting to say, “It’s not my fault - I have a DISEASE!”
And don’t trot out the DSM to me. The APA ain’t exactly an uninterested source.
Some drinkers NEED AA, or detox. A hell of a lot more (IMO) simply need to take responsibility for their choices and actions.
Taking responsibility for your choices or actions does not cure the underlying problem (addiction.) It is certainly a necessary part of anyone’s recovery, whether it be through AA (see Step 4) or a formal treatment program (which is more than just detox, FTR. Detox is not the same as treatment. It is often the first step in treatment.)
Those who don’t take responsibility for their choices and actions are often what’re referred to as “dry drunks”: Same behavior without the alcohol fueling it.
If you’ve made bad choices and bad decisions that have been alcohol-driven, then it’s in your best interest to figure out what led you to drinking and that behavior in the first place. Which, for most people, involves some sort of outside help, as many (most?) don’t have the ability to analyze themselves honestly. Owning up to what you did doesn’t solve the problem.
Right. That’s exactly what I said. :rolleyes:
Mental illness and taking responsibility aren’t mutually exclusive, you know.
The medical folks have done studies linking addiction with issues with the prefrontal cortex. I posted links earlier I believe.
The prefrontal cortex does executive functions. These are the functions that allow one to take responsibility for one’s actions. If the prefrontal cortex isn’t functioning well the individual will have problems with all sorts of things, including inhibitory control. I.E. contriling ones actions and judging the results of those actions. If the area responsible for those actions is broken, well, the individual will have problems taking responsibility.
What you are saying alkies need to do is akin to telling someone with a broken leg that all they need to do is get up and walk and everything will be fine.
It doesn’t work that way.
Slee
What makes you think they are mutually exclusive? From what I’m told, a large part of AA is precisely that: taking responsibility. Also, from what I’m told, a lot of what happens in AA is actually CBT in disguise.
The “disease” model is simply a recognition that over time heavy use of alcohol leaves permanent effects on the the brain (particularly with the dopamine system), and that “will power” by itself will not reverse those effects. When they started AA, they called it an “allergy,” out of ignorance, because they didn’t really know what was going on. But in the end it didn’t really matter what they called it; it just helped them to realize that they had to accept the situation. Trying to be “normal” again, they knew from the empirical evidence of their own experience, didn’t work for real alcoholics.
I might be in a little trouble now. There was a superbowl party next door, and my family and I went over and had a few drinks. Apparently their little shithead decided to touch my daughter on her private parts. So I’m like, OK, curiosity does happen, I was kind of a shit back in the day myself. And then his mother goes off blaming my daughter for calling it out… and I’m like, look, I understand childhood curiosity and all, but when I was called out my mother boxed my ears viciously. But here you’re making excuses for it. And then I implied… well maybe suggested… that if he showed up on my property then I’d pull his ears off and mail them back to his parents address. I recognize this isn’t exactly what the social contract entails, but really, it’s my 5yo daughter, what should I have done?
It’s a rhetorical question. I will crush this Montessori-enabling mother of a molestor.