The apology was in the title. I really am sorry. I don’t think all of my opinions are completely unjustified based on many experiences, I just didn’t look well enough at other perspectives.
It isn’t just here. I am apologizing to lots of people for my past behavior by looking at it as objectively as possible.
However, I never was a troll. I really felt like that when I wrote what I did but things change and it is time to move on. I learned for a fact over this past year that almost anyone can change their behavior for the better through a change of heart. I have seen some people that were almost beyond redemption by their own admission do it so I am pretty sure I can too.
Nobody has to accept my apology. All I can tell you is that the shame, guilt and attempt to do much better are very real.
I also won’t accept shame for everything. Controversial viewpoints were only a very minor part of things that I have written over 20 years. I have also contributed a whole lot to factual questions (the core mission of this board), added some entertainment and lots more.
People are complicated in that way but they do change over time if they are committed to it. I accept full responsibility for my whole life but I have also done lots of good and I am fundamentally kind and self-critical. People in real life respond really well to that. I am not sure everyone else is capable of that type of introspection.
I accept Shag’s apology. Other than his weird views on women, he’s been an interesting member of the Dope. Time will tell his level of sincerity and ability to change his ways.
Qualifying your statement by saying, 'I wasn’t all bad, you know’, and that you’re not apologizing for the things you don’t think you said/did wrong is missing the point, Shaggy.
Wow. How’s the view from up there? Maybe you should actually read some of his old posts before you take us to task. By your own admission you have no idea about his history. You aren’t really in a position to criticize.
That said, I think that people can change and I will take a wait and see approach. A lot of your posts were really gross, Shagnasty, but for what it’s worth, I always thought that you were basically honest.
Shagnasty has apologized. He appears sincere, yet some Dopers continue to bash him. This implies he is apologizing in an incorrect manner. So I ask this question: when a Doper apologizes for previous misconduct, how should it be done?
A few comments on this. First, a good apology is one that admits fault, acknowledges who you have harmed, and doesn’t look to shirk responsibility for what you’ve done. I’m still not exactly sure what the OP is admitting to, he certainly doesn’t acknowledge the hurt he has caused, and he deflects responsibility constantly.
Second, there is no requirement that people accept an apology, even if it’s a good one. An apology is only the start of the process. I am very willing to grant forgiveness if I see a genuine change in a person, but that takes time and a bit more than an empty apology.
Unfortunately, I see little change. As far as I can tell, he is not apologizing for his views of women, only for expressing them in an “inflammatory way.” But I’m not really offended by how he expresses himself, so I don’t need an apology for that. It’s his views that I find disgusting.
And those appear to be the same. He has repeated that he thinks the ugly things he said in the past were true (again, look at his statements I quoted in post #42). He says it was all years ago and he’s a new person now that he’s engaged, but a quick search of his posts in the last year shows that’s not the case. Here are a couple things he says about his wonderful fiance. No wonder he worries she’ll find out.
When someone tells me they “don’t tend to care about other people’s relationships or what they are doing,” I tend to believe them.
Shag, I’m one who has been appalled by your posts. However, I have tried to see them as the view of someone who was immature, reactive, and not at all self-aware. It sounds like you have grown a great deal since then. This is something we should all strive to do and you get an “attaboy” for having done so. You really must continue doing so.
Put yourself in the shoes of the people your rants were aimed at. Perhaps some of them were in the same immature pit as you, throwing shit back and forth. Think about the insults you have received and not forgotten or forgiven. Now, think about the insults you have thrown. Think they’ve been forgotten and forgiven? Wounds like that are pretty doggone permanent, aren’t they? So, yes, do better going forward. You can.
You might want theraputic help to be sure it happens, but try no matter what. And try to forgive those who have wounded you. And keep trying not to wound others. Best of luck to you.
Pssst. I like the “Shagnicely” suggestion. We’ll know who you were and be able to track your improvement.
It should not surprise that in this era of me-too what qualifies as an acceptable apology has gotten some press. This bit though is more in the context of restorative justice, which may provide a more meaningful model.
Again, I am not one of those who feels hurt by his past actions and not for me to accept or to reject his apology. It has however been made pretty clear what those who were hurt consider as not meeting those things. As explained by others it does read as saying “I am sorry for how I told you that I think you are whores.” can you see why some might think that is not quite the sufficient first step. I have no idea what he could offer as repair.
“I’m sorry I was such an ass, I was wrong, and I hope you’ll forgive me”, perhaps? Claiming that what he said was true but he’s embarassed that his fiancee will see it, kind of ruins the whole effect, you know? If you’re really sorry, you won’t try and justify your actions.
And it involves more than a mere apology – one should also then SHOW they’re sincere, by acting on what they said. You know what they say about actions vs. words? Even if one’s apology sounds absolutely perfect, forgiveness takes time. Don’t just say you’re sorry, SHOW it.
So as far as I’m concerned, I’ll simply reserve judgement for the time being.
Needing to shield his fiancée, mothers and daughters from his misogynistic behaviour is very telling.
Beyond his mincing non apology, his words reveal that these women have value in excess of you other whores. What gives them more value? It is entirely in their relationship to him. They aren’t just any ‘women’, they’re HIS fiancée, daughters, mothers. Almost as though their saving virtue exists solely in being connected to him.
These are the ONLY women whose tender feelings deserve consideration or respect. Ugh, how transparently self serving.
