Jesus, how could something like this go on for years and years without you getting this man to a doctor!?! It sounds like tourette’s, if not freaking schizophrenia. Seriously, this isn’t just someone’s “quirk.”
If you had a happy and well-adjusted marriage and the ONLY strange thing going on was the talking-to-self bit, then I would not be concerned.
This goes waaay beyond that. Please get your husband to a therapist, and marriage counseling to boot.
I am not a doctor, but I know a lot about the mental health field (being crazy myself). Please seek help, and NEVER blame yourself. The Dope is here for you, so please let us know how you are doing.
I doubt that. From what I know of Tourettes, the cussing will be unemotional.
" So we saw this awsome, awsome dress, would have been perfect for Ashley, but I looked at the label and it had to be drycleaned, so -*shitstain motherfucker motherfucker *- we decided not to buy it. Who needs more drycleaning? " All this said without bursting in a fit of rage.
I am a psychologist, although I haven’t worked in counseling, and I have to add my voice to the chorus of “explore options for therapy”.
One more remark: your husband might feel he is just venting anger and frustration in a relatively harmless manner. He might defend his ranting with that: “If I couldn’t rant, I’d have to break stuff, or worse!” But he is wrong !
Recent psychological research says, contrary to popular views, ranting of this kind only serves to keep the ranter in an emotional state of anger and frustration.
So not only does the ranting bother you (and I wonder how you have put up with it for so long) but it also harms your husband’s chances in life and jobs.
Yes, it’s OK that you don’t want to be around such behavior.
No, it is not normal.
Another vote here for the ‘if it were his only foible…’ school.
You shouldn’t have to put up with walking on eggshells at home.
The amount of anger his self-talking seems to indicate is a level I’d find quite actively scary. Too much anger, held in too long, can do things to people.
I’m with the other posters who’ve suggested you should get out, and if you can’t do that, at least get both of you into counselling.
How does this hold up to cutting and other forms of self mutilation? Suicide from severe depression?
In case I sounded too hard-hearted in my earlier post, my husband is disabled due in part to diagnosed mental illness. It’s a hard row to hoe if the “sick” person is willing to get help. If the person is unwilling, it’s just a miserable life.
I spent months arguing with my husband before I finally got him to go to his doctors. He finally understood that it was either that or I was going to have to leave–I couldn’t stay and watch him fall apart like that.
Finally, he agreed to a 2-year humor the wife program–he goes and sees the doctors and tries whatever we want without arguing for 2 years. After the 2 years is up, we will re-negotiate. Fortunately, going to the doctors got him:
[ul]
[li]diagnosed properly (we hope)[/li][li]on meds that seem to work for the most part (I don’t worry that he’ll commit suicide while I’m at work)[/li][li]sleeping better[/li][li]reduced his panic attacks[/li][li]more stuff than I can list[/ul][/li]If he hadn’t agreed to my terms, I would have had to leave.
I agree with others who say it’s up to him to want the situation to change. It’s up to you to leave if you’re unhappy. Has this rage ever gone beyond verbal and into punching walls, etc? That would make me fear for your safety.
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He sounds like a prime candidate for medical help if he wants it. And you are perfectly entitled to give him an ultimatum.
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If you leave him, be prepared to have to pay alimony to him. I’ve seen it happen on more than one occasion.
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Best of luck to you, whatever decision you make. This is not normal behavior and you are perfectly justified in feeling uncomfortable about it. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t bother him. You are entitled to some peace.
Ignoring the odd behaviour for a moment, ask yourself this:
Do you want to stay with this man for another 20 or 30 years?
If the answer is no then you need to follow through with the divorce. Leave the issues over healthcare and money aside. If you divorce a person then you are not responsible for them.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do.
(And it’s nice to hear that things are working out ok Purple Haze).
Perfectly fine by me
freckafree, I have thought some more about your OP. I may say the following a bit harsh, but it is meant constructively. The way I see it, you and your husband have something in common. You both feel powerless in the face of your problems. The rantings of your husband symbolize that powerlessness all the more for their impotence. But I also don’t hear you say flat-out: "I hate the fact that my husband doesn’t succeed at his plans, I hate that ranting he does, *and here’s what I’m gonna do about it. *
You currently seem miles away from taking such an assertive stance; you even ask us for permission to feel you hate his ranting!
This avoidance is something you have in common with your husband. Maybe you even picked each other because that trait was something you both recognized in each other. For the past 60 years, your husband has pretty much avoided facing his own limits (which he knows about; that’s why he has to blame others so much) in his profession. He has avoided talking to you about the emotions he rants so much about. But you seem to have avoided that talk as well, and you have avoided talking to your husband about how his failures and his rants make you feel.
In this stage, his way to indicate he is in pain is just as ambivalent, half-half and unclearly communicated as your way to indicate to him that you are in pain. You said a year ago you wanted a divorce, but you haven’t followed up on that, you have not made a clear ultimatum, you haven’t said what you want him to do and stop doing. All you have done is mutter something about divorce and moved yourself to the guest bedroom. Which he can interpret in a variety of ways, and he will probably indicate it in such a way that he will feel even more powerless to do something about it.
Stop muttering both of you! Start communicating! And if you feel you can’t break that pattern on your own, seek counseling to help you communicate!
He knows the behavior bothers me. Once, he even apologized to me when I’d left the house upon hearing him rant about me having forgotten to buy coffee. (“How can you be so goddamned stupid?”) Once, when he began ranting about our son (who is 11), I flat-out told him to stop. And he did, for the moment at least.
When I told him I wanted a divorce, I told him that the major reasons were his ranting (and the fact I’d reacted to it over the years by completely withdrawing myself from him emotionally), and that he was not doing his part to support the family in his refusal to seek employment. I also suggested he avail himself of mental health help while he was still covered under my benefits. He has not done that.
Legal separation requires a separation agreement, just as a dissolution does. I presented a draft of one to him several months ago. (I have retained a lawyer.) The division of property I have proposed leaves him in pretty good shape. I keep the house, but I also assume ALL the other debt and compensate him for his share of the home equity with a big chunk of my retirement $$$$.
I don’t want to file for divorce. I’d much rather resolve this via dissolution. One lawyer I spoke to me said it was likely I’d be ordered to pay spousal support AND my husband would be given custody of our son, since he’s ostensibly been the “stay-at-home” parent. We are on shaky enough financial footing with only one income. The only way I could begin to afford spousal and child support would be to sell the house, and that would be very hard on our son.
I don’t know why I am finding it so dfficult to move things along to the next step. I don’t want to be ruined financially by a legal pissing fight. I’ve been trying to give my husband time to develop a plan for himself, but that’s obviously not happening.
If there is any chance your husband would be given custody of your son you need to be prepared to fight it. I don’t think it would be healthy for him to be raised by someone with such anger issues. Would your husband try to get custody?
How did your husband react when you told him you wanted a divorce?
Speak to another lawyer. Or does your son want to stay with his dad?
I know why it’s so hard to divorce him—I was in a similar place 12 years ago.
Hope.
You hope things will get better.
Fear of the massive changes it will make in your life.
It’s not your responsibility to drag him to a doctor, or cause him to get a job and hold it. He has to want those things for himself and for his family. It is not your responsibilty to feed, clothe and provide health benefits for your husband. It is your responsibility to protect your son from as much harm as you can.
Don’t keep quiet about your husband’s problems. It’s not disloyal to share with your friends and family what goes on in your life. Don’t isolate yourself or be ashamed. Seek and accept help.
Best of luck and it’s okay to forget the coffee sometimes.
This is the only thing I thought of when reading your post, I can’t believe others have suggested counselling, no offence to anyone, the horse has bolted.
You’ve done your time. Get out and enjoy your remaining years on this earth. Life is too short to continue paying for a decision you made when you were still a child.
He said, “I have nothing to say.” He did not in any way indicate that he wanted to preserve the relationship. In the conversations we’ve had since the initial one, it’s clear to me that he’s resigned himself to the inevitable, and he’s looking to place blame rather than accept any responsibility.
The lawyer I’ve retained is not the one who scared the crap out of me with the spousal/child support scenario. My son, bless his heart, is not mature enough to be burdened with making that choice. His choice would be that his father and I stay together.
But your son may be asked to make that choice. He will not always be 11. A judge may ask him where he wants to live and your staying with his father may not be a choice. My lawyer scared the crap out of me pointing out the model my son has had for all his years of a man who wants to be taken care of and shifts blames at every opportunity, a man who doesn’t work but has a woman to take care of him, feed him and who jumps a foot when he yells at her.
I hope your situation isn’t as bad as mine was. We want our kids to have everything they want, but it’s not always possible.
I’m not sure if this is kosher, but maybe YOU (the op) could go see a pshyciatirst. Explain the problems, they symptoms and how they manifest themself (you may want to start a journal). From there, the doctor maybe about to suggest a diagnosis and you could use that to learn about the problem. Understanding the ins and outs of the problem may make a world of difference. Even if you can’t change him, you’ll have a better understading of what’s going on instead his head.
But like I said, I dont’ know if that’s kosher.
And this isn’t even worthwhile if your not interested in saving the marrige. Like quitting smoking, the best program in the world won’t do you any good, if you don’t WANT to quit.
The first paragraph tells me your husband does react if you tell him the ranting bothers you, but only if you tell him flat out, in his face, no-mistake-about-it , and accompanied by an action. This earlier thread where a Doper asks us how she can communicate to her husband how she hates his cussing tells us the same thing. You have to spell it out In Really Big Letters, I’m afraid. You have done so twice now, so I guess it is safe to say he’s heard your feelings about his rantings only twice now. Maybe he thinks that if you really hated his ranting, you’d rrant about it like he does. He sure seems to have inflated the meaning of words, up to a point where " godddamn you to hell" means “oh, darn, you forgot to get coffee” so I think it’s safe to suspect he has been able to refrain from hearing you are at your wits end.
You have given your husband time to develop a plan for himself? When has that ever helped?
He really needs more help with that, I’m afraid. You both might feel he should be able to DO something constructive, but the reality and experience shows us he just doesn’t have what it takes. He needs to accept that fact and seek and accept help; you need to arrange for something of somebody to take him by the hand.
I would just note that at 61 years old, he’s going to get worse not better.
I don’t know what all legal options there are for freeing oneself from your spouse, but if there’s one that you can go ahead with that doesn’t require him to sign anything, I’d say you better get moving.
As for advice for motivating yourself, try and stop thinking of him in terms of being your husband. Rather, think of him as a child. Do you really want to waste your time and life caring for a sulking child? Would you have let your own child get the upper hand on you with behavior like his?