Ultress–I composed a long response to the above discussion. Fortunately, I hit reload before I hit “submit.”
You said it way better than I, and in many fewer words, too. Brava!
Well said, Utress and Green Bean…I wish I had your insight and eloquence I’m outta here!
the blueslady
I am sorry Green Bean. Let us call a truce and go on with our posting?
I just want to tell all the ladies that Lswote is a real catch if you get to know him. He is rough when you first meet him, I always thought of him as like an elephant in a china shop or however that saying goes. He is very honest and has a great sense of humor as long as you don’t get him singing. =) That is something that anyone can live without. Anyways, he is not a typical male. He is very understanding and emotional but he also has that testosterone thing going for him. I like a guy that makes you feel like a woman but also as an equal. He does that, and he is very good at it if I do say so myself. =)
Well I do believe his ego is big enough now. =) And even though he won’t speak to me I want to tell you girls that if you can get him to talk to you he is a lot of fun. He is just going through some tough stuff right now, and I do believe it will pass.
Well this is my first long post. I am proud. =)
Once again I am sorry Green Bean, I was out of line.
Fair 'nuff Brittainy. Truce.
ultress and blueslady have deemed me a liar with no sense of humor and no confidentiality. I guess Green Bean has weighed in with that opinion too. Please arrange for my immediate execution. I don’t deserve to live.
Lswote, while I know these woman are very intelligent, because you have to be to get far on this board, they don’t know you.
I don’t believe you can explain yourself in a way that doesn’t sound like you are complaining about how you are such a nice guy but no one will give you a chance.
But let me tell everyone again, I swear to you that once you get to know him he grows on you. =) He is the most honest person I have ever met, and even though I am not I am telling you the truth. I have known him for 2 years now and not once has he ever lied to me. He has a wonderful sense of humor even though he only ever says something really funny every 100 tries or so. =)
So you know what I say Lswote? Call someone up and talk to them…they will try to make you feel better. =)
Whoosh! That’s what I like about this place; it’s raised Thread Drift to giddy art form.
Totally redundant, boring and no doubt a thread killer, but hey…there’s style and then there’s substance.
Social ease and pick up presence are style. Keeping a woman takes substance–or at least it does for any woman worth keeping.
Yeah, yeah, so how’re ya gonna KEEP one if you can’t “get” one? My answer is insultingly simple: women are just people. True fact. Start with the basics: good grooming (natch), courtesy (show interest), assume good intent.
That’ll weed out some of the losers right there, if games are what they’re after.
Be yourself, within the bounds of courtesy and sense. The old 60’s saying “Life is a shit-filled Twinkie and each day is just another bite” always struck me as a very moral statement, with an attitudinal twist. Have issues? Who doesn’t? Awful things happen. The point is: how do you decide to handle them?
Sorry, wordy–and maybe sanctimonious–answer. But women generically want what men do: compassion, humor, honesty, “oh dang it” grit in the face of falibility, warmth and integrity.
That’s all.
Veb
I agree with most of what Phouka has said. What a good job of expressing yourself!
I was thinking about suggesting that you volunteer for something; when I read that this suggestion has already been made to you. But; I think you are missing a very big plus to volunteering!!! Yes, it will get you out there where you can meet someone, but more important…when you volunteer to help people who are less fortunate than yourself, it takes your focus off of you and places it on them. Helping others is a great way to build confidence (and I don’t mean helping them by letting someone walk all over you; that brings you down!), furthermore, it lets you see how very much you have to be thankful for, so you don’t feel so sorry for yourself. No one is attracted to someone in the middle of a ‘pity party’. It’s not a fun thing to watch. I don’t mean to sound as though I’m kicking you when you are down; I totally understand what you are going through, because I have done the same thing myself.
Have you considered therapy? Perhaps you need to go on antidepressants…for a short time. Depression is a very real disease, and it isn’t cured by a few nice words. And believe me, divorce can trigger depression. I wanted my divorce for a long time before I finally got it, and even though the divorce was what I wanted, the adjustment was difficult and took some time. I went into therapy for a while…and took antidepressants. My ex did a real number on my self-esteem…and it’s a long road home.
I hope some of this helps…I really believe that until you can be happy living with you, you won’t find anyone else who wants to live with you, either. This isn’t to say that you aren’t worth living with!
As I mentioned in one of the other threads…have you considered getting a dog? Or some pet to help with the lonliness?
learae
Ok, at the risk of what appears to be my very life, I’ve
got something else to say (probably pointless and mundane, but…) Lswote, the only way I know to get past the neediness is to find peace with yourself. When YOU are enough for you, the neediness will sink back into the background, where it belongs. It’s there inside of everyone, somewhere, so don’t feel it has to be gone. I was widowed five years ago this week. There hasn’t been anyone else, not a single date. But it’s ok. I spend the vast majority of my time alone, or with my kids. I work part time and don’t socialize. But I’m content here, because I CHOSE to be here. I know that I need this time to reflect and heal and decide who I’m going to be now. In a way, so do you. It sounds to me like you are trying to fill your life with someone else, instead of with you. Believe me, until you have made peace with you, no one else will ever be enough. All you can do is bring others into your pain, THEY CAN NOT HEAL IT. Considering this is a public place, let me offer my email address, it’s in my profile. I am always willing to lend an ear, a shoulder or whatever…well, maybe not organs (where did that come in, anyway?) You are NOT alone. Debbi
Kudos Dragonlady (debbi)
My thoughts exactly.
All the shiny shoes, workouts and pick up lines aren’t gonna help you if you aren’t ready.
I know, I know… “I’M READY” you scream.
Been there, done that, my friend. If you’re still crying on shoulders you need to get past that. No girl wants that in a relationship. I can’t tell you how many girls I’ve turned off in the distant past becuase I laid some “horrible wench did me wrong, please love me…” story on them. It’s too much baggage for people to handle right off the bat. Relationships are hard enough without jumping into one with somebody who’s obviously in a devastated place right now.
Cry on sympathetic shoulders, annoy your close friends to the point of exhaustion with subtle variations on the same tale of woe, listen to sad songs, listen to angry songs, whatever gets you by. Just get by it.
Then, and only then, will you be able to enter another relationship.
Good test to see if you’re ready: Can you repress the urge to talk about how miserable you are/were/plan to be, for any length of time (several dates worth)? You gotta get em to like you first before they’ll be your therapist. And ideally you get to a point where they won’t even have to be.
Take it from a guy who knows… I’ve been through lots of relationships and been on both sides of a broken heart. I know what it’s like to wake up for months at a time with the feeling of weight on my chest.
To prove a point, the girl I’m with now left me for almost a year after I went off on one of my Mr Bitter rants about how “love was a commodity created to sell greeting cards, blah blah, blah” I needed that time too, to realize what a dumb ass I was being. Happy ending- we’ve now been back together for over 4 years and I’m springing the question at the end of the month!
So keep your chin up and don’t worry. It’ll get better. Even if it doesn’t seem like it now.
Brian
Let’s see…sense of humor (check), intelligence (double check), kindness (triple check), silly kid-acting (check), and his top score is somewhere in the high 600’s.
Sorry. Looks like I already have him. And if I have anything to do with it, he’s not going anywhere.
Lswote and I have a lot of things in common, in the social department.
However, my entire outlook on my situation is quite different.
I too, have low self-esteem/low self-confidence in approaching women. Why?
Because I know that I have things about myself, and my life, that need to be improved upon, for myself.
Many of the things about myself that I currently feel other people would have a problem with, are in actuality, the things that I, myself, have a problem with. It is self-sabotage. When one is not happy with oneself, it tricks one into believing, no one else will be happy with you either. When you approach someone, this is conveyed, people pick up on it. A signal is sent out saying, “I’m not good enough, I’m not smart enough, and gosh darn it, people can’t stand me.” It’s not THEY who are rejecting you, it is YOU who are rejecting you. I know from my own experience, that’s why I don’t get dates. I am trying very hard to end this cycle.
Once I have corrected these issues, I will feel much better about myself. I will be comfortable and happy with myself, allowing me more freedom to approach someone, and for them to approach me.
I won’t feel needy, but I may still feel unfulfilled. Why? Because I have gotten all of my personal issues out of the way. I will be looking for the next step. I will be thinking, “Okay, I’ve done what I needed to do to for me. I’m happy, but there has to be something more out there. My ‘me’ time has passed. I would like to offer to share my life with someone else. If it happens, wonderful, if not, it is unfortunate, but I will be fine.” It is a goal, not a necessity.
It’s okay to feel lonely. I don’t care how happy a person is with theirself, and their life, everyone gets lonely sometimes. It is part of human nature. We shouldn’t deny ourselves that part of our humanity. The trick is knowing the difference between need and desire.
As far as meeting people goes, that may still pose a pose a problem, as far as common interests are concerned. However, one may be surprised to find that when one has the inner strength and confidence, which can only come from oneself, other people will be drawn to you, in any place/situation. Some other posters have already mentioned this.
The way I look at having a S.O. is this: Life is like a bathtub. Every positive thing you do, every hobby you have, every interest you enjoy, etc, are all drops of water. Some people lead such full lives that their tub gets filled by buckets instead of drops. However, I doubt many people’s water level ever reaches *** over the rim*** without a S.O. Finding “the right” S.O. is NOT more water in the tub. The S.O. is the drain plug. When you find the right one, your tub will begin to overflow. Unlike a real tub, though, you must add the water FIRST, and the plug LAST. Putting a plug in an empty tub without the water running, does nothing. It may look like a good idea, but all you are really accomplishing is, putting someone in a tight, uncomfortable, unnecessary position.
Right now, there is very little water in my tub.
How much water is in yours?
My tub is only half full, unless I am in it, too.
What would Archimedes have to say about love?
This is easy-
I made a chart with all my criteria over a year ago.
Then I rated each person that over the year I was interested in in each category, from a -10 to 10. Then you add up the scores and you can get an idea of how right the guy is for you!
The criteria probably differs for individuals and with age, but here is what I think is important.
Presence of Psychosis- a like a guy who’s interesting
Love (or at least tolerance) of the Cure
FIZZLE- this refers to the fizzy feeling you get upon seeing the prospective love interest
Love (or at least tolerance) of/by my friends- it’s just easier if the guy gets along with your friends, maybe this one changes with age
Buys me Toys- I dunno, I just think it’s really cute when a guy gets you rubber bats and spiders and goo for no reason
Loves Me
Heart of Strawberries- Something that I can’t explain but can sense in a person
I experimentally tested this chart on Robert Smith, and he scored a 40.
My X scored a -1
And my current interest scored a 42! Higher than Robert Smith! I just don’t know how to let him know this interesting bit of information without coming across as seriously disturbed.
I am not mentally ill, I just like to attempt to quantify things that cannot be measured.
lswote said:
I replied:
lswote responded:
lswote, I really have to ask what it is that you’re looking for here. I’m not interested in why you felt it was necessary to blow somewhere in the neighborhood of $150-200K on your ex-wife, I’m trying to answer your question as to why you appear needy to women and how to get around that.
When I read you statement the first time, this is what occurred to me:
“Geez, what is this guy trying to prove? Being nice to your ex and wanting to help her start up again is maybe paying off the van or giving her some cash or putting a deposit down on an apartment for her.”
Not to mention that you specifically said:
That’s not helping out, that’s not being nice, that’s not “doing the right thing”. That’s being a martyr. That’s being a person so desperate to prove something, you’re willing to harm your own financial situation to make a point. That’s being needy and desperate.
So, now that I’ve seen your declarations of having to pay for sex and your Ultress-bashing thread in the pit, I’ve got a couple last things to say to you:
-
Get off the cross, lswote. Other people need the wood more than you do.
-
Stop whining and take a look at the advice people have offered you here. Nothing’s going to change until you decide you’ll make it change. SingleDad is right: you must create your own happiness. The only thing I see you creating on this board is pity parties left and right.
With today’s managed forests I am sure there is plenty of wood to go around, however, I will stop whining.
As far as what you call the ultress bashing thread in the pit, though I started it, I am getting bashed far more than ultress. I started the thread because I thought if you had a grievance that is what you were supposed to do. I could have said what I was thinking in this thread but I was under the impression that the pit was there for that reason. To steal ultress’ words: Bite me!
Sorry phouka, I should have been more clear on this point. I didn’t go into it because I thought it was a throw-away comment as I was just trying to make the point that I was caring towards my ex-wife even during the divorce. I didn’t pay off her house, just her van. I paid the down-payment to get her into a new house and outfitted it with new appliances and such, but she has the mortgage. I didn’t spend anything in the neighborhood of $150k. And I did give her more money than we jointly had from liquidating all our assets, but it was a short-term set-back as I earn a good living. I am no martyr.
I’m getting in on this a little late, but what the hey.
Personally, there are certain attributes that I find attractive, but if I went with generic answers like “sense of humor”, “self-confidence”, and “sensitivity”, I’d be describing a majority of the people on the planet. I don’t expect to ever be in love with everyone in existence.
People who are in love are in love not only because of their similarities, but also because of their differences. A person who is in love doesn’t “tolerate” their SO’s quirks…rather, they find those aspects endearing. If you can’t adore every single bit of your SO, they’re not meant to be such. This is NOT to say that you should disregard a person who, for instance, has red hair when you prefer blonde hair…rather, that you adore this person so much, you decide that red hair was created just to grow out of this person’s head.
I’m probably not making much sense…big freakin’ surprise.
Anyway, you’ll know her when you find her. And she’ll know you. It’ll be good.
I’ve been lurking on this thread, and this is what I think I hear the ladies saying that they want. It goes to follow that the perfect man has all these attributes (listed in no particular order):
[ul]
[li]A sense of humor[/li][li]Is good looking[/li][li]Has a sense of dignity[/li][li]Is flirtatious[/li][li]Is intelligent[/li][li]Is kind[/li][li]Can be carefree and act like a kid[/li][li]Is not afraid of feelings[/li][li]Is not possesive[/li][li]Is open to discussion and debate[/li][li]Knows himself[/li][li]Sees the good in other people[/li][li]Has a sense of confidence[/li][li]Is responsible[/li][li]Is compassionate[/li][li]Is not desparate or needy[/li][li]Has a sense of curiousity[/li][li]Is articulate[/li][li]Is disciplined[/li][li]Treats others with respect[/li][li]Has moral integrity[/li][li]Smells good without cologne[/li][li]Has some martial ability[/li][li]Is not selfish[/li][li]Doesn’t feel sorry for himself[/li][li]Doesn’t let himself be walked all over[/li][li]Is a good father, or potentially so[/li][li]Is attentive, but not clingy[/li][li]Is financially secure, but not necessarily rich[/li][li]Is handy[/li][li]Is not boring[/li][/ul]
Soooo… Since very few guys are all these things, which ones are the “must haves”?
If I was enough of a webhead, I would set up a web site to let women vote for, say, the top 5 attributes. Somebody could then develop an online questionnaire for guys to fill out, and it would rate their desirability. It would be a tremendous boon to us guys. As far as most guys think, many think you care mostly about money, penis size and strength.
One word of advice here:
Hookup with someone with LESS problems than you. You’ll live a more enjoyable life.