Mafia Reunion - Day One

[snfaulkner]

@raventhief

See, Faulkner, this why I love you to little bits and pieces. Not only because you embrace my ridiculous fluff, but you get BB jokes!

[Captain_Klutz]

In regard to Colby’s apparent slip, I’ll wait until he explains what he meant.

Also, I strongly suggest that everyone read the Night 0 thread. It was not just fluff, there was also discussion about the setup. Also, toward the end, people were posting with knowledge of their roles.

[Chronos]

OK, I’m caught up on my first read-through, but I’m still only to the end of Night 0 on my second read, and I’m getting too tired to continue right now. But one thing sticks out to me:

In post 444 of Night 0, jsgoddess says that she thinks that we should be discussing how Town roles should play, since conversation in general is good, and power-roles are free to disregard the advice anyway. But it occurred to me that I hadn’t noticed her doing much of that discussion herself, and so I searched up all of her posts in the two threads. Confirmed: She never actually discusses anything about what any of the Town roles should do. Not only that, but she posts an awful lot of fluff, and of the non-fluff posts she’s made, most of them seem to be expressing the most non-contentious side of whatever topic she’s on, even though she herself suggested one non-fluff topic of conversation.

I think that she’s trying to get everyone else to talk more as cover (because we really do tend to lynch the loud, even though we shouldn’t), while laying low herself.

Vote jsgoddess

[HookerChemical]

I take a couple days away as the N0 comes to a close, and I find 4 or 5 pages worth of new material. I love/hate you all. I’m going to limit myself to a few posts per day so there won’t be fluff. I will put proportionately more meat on them.

@Biotop

You’ve got players discussing the merit of a Patsy claim, game mechanic debate, players debating whether a question to the mod is fake or not, overnight posters being scummy or not, 37, switches, the whole editing brouhaha… and these are just off the top of my head. You have player posts before role reveal and after. Even if you don’t find any scumminess in all this, I don’t see why you seem so proud for ignoring it.

Good summary of N0, and I’ll chime in on the major issues where I have thoughts. I lean towards the Patsy claiming. If it’s countered, we have an additional prime target and if it’s a mislynch, we get a bonus kill. One wrinkle is that (unless I’ve missed the rule) it is possible to have duplicates of any of the roles, including Patsy. We know that one Patsy exists, but we don’t know that two don’t. In the unlikely even that there are two Patsies, the counterclaim would be legit.

I don’t see much (any) benefit to scum to fake the claim, so the potential for a misfire is mitigated, but it’s a wrinkle to consider. I still come down in favor of the claim.

I think editing is bad, but not much of a tell. Scum have their boards. I doubt there’s anything to be gained from cross faction communication via edited posts. Given that it would require that both be online and reading at the same time (which cannot be coordinated), it’s difficult. Benefit is low. Risk of being seen by any of the numerous townies (or an unintended scum party) is astronomical. It won’t happen.

I’ll add this to Biotop’s list of N0 topics: scum tells. I don’t think there are universal scum tells (short of literally saying you’re scum), but individual players may have them. I’ve seen some players peg regulars as scum for these tells, and I have a couple in my back pocket that I think are valid. I’ve been wrong about them as well.

@septimus

I disagree with the 1st paragraph. Town Powers might want advice, but can’t ask for it directly. Yes, Scum might try to give bad advice but their bad advice will be attacked and put themselves in jeopardy.

The 2nd paragraph may be good advice, but runs the risk of alerting Scum to countermeasures we may try.

The 3rd paragraph seems odd given that off-thread communication is allowed at all times. Cautious players will refresh their private chatrooms before posting in-game. So it sounds like Pleonast is talking about a Wolf trying to send a message to a Mafia, or vice versa. Is that right? It still seems very odd. With so many players it’s more likely that a different player would see the secret message than it’s intended recipient.

All in all, this post by Pleonast seems weird enough to merit an early loose vote.
Vote Pleonast[COLOR]

(vote tags broken)
I agree with septimus’s comments on Pleonast’s ideas, but not the vote. Bad ideas come from townies all the time.

@TexCat

[COLOR=“Red”]unvote: Normal[COLOR]
[COLOR=“Blue”]vote: Colby[COLOR]
**
Bolding mine, above. This phrasing really stood out for me. I would have said, I think the fire is probably from one of the scum teams, or an arsonist. But Colby says the other team. It sure sounds like he’s on one of the scum teams to me.

(vote tags broken again- nested quote can be found at the linked post)
As far as slips go, this is one of the most suggestive I’ve seen, but I can’t bring myself to vote for it. Bad phrasing is pretty par for the course. Colby’s slip could easily be unintentional bad phrasing. (Please see SNFaulkner for numerous examples of intentional bad phrasing.)

@ToeJam

Sinjin, Guiri, Normal Phase
Is there anything I can help to clear up on why you 3 find me suspicious? Sinjin had questions, so I can address those. The other two just snuggled up behind SJ, so I’ll be here waiting to hear from you guys.

** Sinjin **:
Do you have issues with me thinking out loud? When I went through the paragraph (hereyou quote it), I showed my work.

You quote portions of my statements, and ask why did I bring up the previous one- because I don’t want to leave them out. If I present only one side of an argument, that’s kinda scummy. I want to consider both sides (and as you pointed me pointing out- I even stated that one option is LESS likely, and the other is more likely).

Now, you ask why would scum kill the Patsy (your third statement)? Because of what I said afterwards- The Scum factions ALSO have to deal with the WIFOM that the Patsy is a false claim. It’s not likely, but Each scum faction has to worry about the possibility that the OTHER scum faction might have done it.
That doesn’t really matter early game (especially for Town), but late game- the scum group is going to get antys about the idea of a False claiming Patsy, and since it’d add to their kills if it WAS a real patsy, and if it WAS a fake-claim, it’d be pro-Scum to take out the Patsy the further we get into the late game.

It’s all WIFOM. But it’s more and more WIFOM for the Scum the later it gets into the game with an uncounterclaimed Patsy (who ideally should be town, because… as I noted, it’d be really really risky for scum to counterclaim and trade 1:1 that early in the game, putting them immediately behind the other scum group). Hence the Doc’s get to WIFOM if they want to protect a potential Townie role that ScumA might actually be thinking about killing.

That’s what I meant by my lines on the matter.
Also, if you notice- I do at the end summarize my thinking aloud with what I actually DO think of the whole matter: *Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. *

That’s the takeaway. The rest of it is WIFOM if you’re scum, if you’re a doctor, and if you’re not town. Which is what I want to do. I want to pour WIFOM for scum. I’m not going to make it easier on them. And if you’re scum, you better continue to expect such WIFOM.

If you’re town, just ask me to clarify, and I will clarify (or I’ll probably clarify on my own, as I did there in that post).

So now, Sinjin, you’re fine. But Normal Phase, Guiri. What’s up? It’s rather easy to jump on and go “me too”, but if you’ve actually got Qs, I’m still alive. Otherwise, I’ll just keep your snuggling in mind for the future.
-R

This feels way too snugly and inoffensive. I think I’m a non-combative player, but this is too kiddy-gloved for even me. It feels too universally snuggly and eager to be free of issues/baggage/scrutiny. “I’ve answered your questions. Please look elsewhere.” (Sunny Daze seems to be getting a similar vibe as well in Post 113 toDay.)
[color=blue]vote ToeJam

[HookerChemical]

@Captain_Klutz

In regard to Colby’s apparent slip, I’ll wait until he explains what he meant.

Also, I strongly suggest that everyone read the Night 0 thread. It was not just fluff, there was also discussion about the setup. Also, toward the end, people were posting with knowledge of their roles.

Role distribution seems to have been a fairly extended process. It sounds like I got mine well ahead of others having theirs. I’d assume that posters MAY have had roles for any post after moderators said roles were going out. After they post they’ve received their PM, it’s safe to assume they had the role.

[Zeriel]

@Normal_Phase

If I see one more person say slip up is better than policy vote or poke vote or random vote when there are other options on the board I might lose my mind.

Will it affect your mental state if I say I hate policy votes so much?

Except for lists. I vote for anyone who makes a list, especially if it’s NAF.

[TexCat]

@storyteller0910

OK, time to get this thing rolling.

As promised, the Town and Scum roles are completely open. Rather than post them all here, which would take an eternity and just clog up the game thread, I will instead link to a google document listing the roles. **Please note that there is exactly one of each role, except for the Masons (n=4) and the vanilla Townsperson (n=?).
**

@Hooker. Only 1 Patsy. And she should claim.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@Normal_Phase

The first one was a very slight ping along the lines of what snfaulkner and ThingFish pointed out – self-consciously grouping oneself with town. The second quote morphed from defense against the accusation (‘don’t we all present ourselves as town?’) into some kind of weird promotion of information-gathering – which he wasn’t even doing – as a pro-town tactic, and manages to drive the “look how townie I’m being” ping up several notches.

And then I guess asking about scum communication is more of the same, though I didn’t notice it negatively at the time.

I believe the second response was spurred by people raising questions about me due to asking questions. Questions, yes, that would be patently obvious if I were scum, and would only be necessary if I were town, but somehow were being construed as an attempt to illicitly declare myself as Town.

Was it defensive, perhaps overly so? Sure. But is being defensive really enough for you to now send a vote my way? Seems dumb, but I’ve certainly based Day One votes on dumber things before.

Speaking of which, for his Night Zero comment about wanting the game to be fair to scum

Vote: hawekeyeop

[Colby11]

@TexCat

unvote: Normal
vote: Colby
**
Bolding mine, above. This phrasing really stood out for me. I would have said, I think the fire is probably from one of the scum teams, or an arsonist. But Colby says the other team. It sure sounds like he’s on one of the scum teams to me.

The other team=not the town team. Of course the fact that they are wolves and Mafia make things more complicated to explain, but meh.

There seems to be a lot of roles just in the exposed roles (just read them over). Meanwhile, I get a stupid vote over three damn words.

Really? Couldn’t you have come up with anything better? Maybe like I killed Dante or some other BS.

[Drain_Bead]

@Crys75

You’re drinking the kool aid!! Meeko does this stuff all the time which is why I usually vote him early myself. However he seems to be doing the normal Meeko.

Funny, I always remembered Pleonast as being the one who gets all the Day One votes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drain_Bead]

@Captain_Klutz

It is different. In a normal game, if scum fake a claim then they are safe from nightkill , as scum are obviously not going to target their own. However, to a separate scum group, the claim looks totally legitimate, and the player is therefore a target.

Yes, it leads to dilemmas for both town and scum. Should townies protect? Should scum target them? If scum do get scared off, then that is actually a gain for town.

With a Scum role who kills a protector that’s targeting the target, there’s gonna be a whole lotta WIFOM going on with protection after claims. That’s probably the most OP power in the game, honestly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thing_Fish]

So. Pleonast.

@Pleonast

Confirming my vanilla Town role PM.

No lynch: there’d have to be a very compelling reason to give up our kill. Not have much info is not compelling.

Mafia vs Wolves: best to catch as we can. We can worry about specific win conditions when we’re in mid-game (half the scum dead).

Third parties: in this setup it’s always a mislynch, since we only need to eliminate Scum. Non-exclusives must be able to show pro-Town actions if they want their claim to be taken seriously. Claiming immediately and accounting for every action immediately after taken is the most pro-Town possible.

Exclusives must be stopped. This might involve a vigilante kill. But the only sure way to stop them is by winning before they do. Vigging Scum (that is, advancing our win condition) is a better approach, unless we have specific knowledge otherwise.

Please note that I am still out of country and won’t be able to participate much. Of course, I’m not likely to reach mine old levels of posting anyway.

@Pleonast

Skimming through the roles, I see a potential flaw: Scum are not informed of their teammates in their PMs. This gives the possibility of “ignorant” Scum who don’t know who their teammates are (since the mods don’t force someone to read the secret forums). Scum who can’t coordinate or even know who’s on their team are much harder for us to find.

Perhaps the game was balanced with this in mind. In any case, we should not expect Scum to know who’s on their own team.

@LightFoot

So a member of a scum team would choose to not visit the off board- and willingly ‘play blind’
is that what you are saying?

good for Town but poor scum form I think

@Pleonast

Yes. But bad for us and helpful to Scum. It’s much harder to kill off 14 third parties than 14 Scum.

You come into the thread and immediately claim Vanilla Town, which is weird but whatever. Then you immediately start talking about what you feel would be the best strategy for scum. A strategy which, by definition, couldn’t be discussed on the scum boards.

You don’t do this in the context of offering any ideas about how Town might counter this. You just say “Oh noes, if scum think of doing* this* not-particularly-obvious thing, we’re all screwed!”

Why, as Town, would you do that?

[Thing_Fish]

@Drain_Bead

With a Scum role who kills a protector that’s targeting the target, there’s gonna be a whole lotta WIFOM going on with protection after claims. That’s probably the most OP power in the game, honestly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, absolutely this. Nobody has really been talking about the impact of the Hitman/Outrider roles, which will force protective roles to consider their own safety when deciding how to use their power. If there is only one claimed power role going into a Night or Day phase, it would be very risky for a doc to protect that player.

Obligatory disclaimer that all Town power roles should play their roles as they see fit, BUT… since Town has both Day and Night docs, seems like it would be wisest for the 7-shot protector Wizard to hold off until one of the other docs die, so that the Wizard can cover the phase that the late Doc worked in.

[HookerChemical]

@TexCat

@Hooker. Only 1 Patsy. And she should claim.

Thanks. It felt like there should only be one, but I kept gravitating to the link on that post. I feel more strongly about the claim.

[Hoopy_Frood]

@Captain_Klutz

@ToeJam

Did the Mods Clarify this or did I miss something. Do the Scum get their own boards? They must if they’re coordinating who to kill and all, or did I miss something here?

-Are you assuming that there are no Scum Boards? Did Mafia change really that much since I’ve been gone?

“I can’t possibly be scum, I don’t even know if they have their own board”. I’ve seen scum try this tactic, although not quite this blatant.

Vote ToeJam

I don’t like this vote at all. It’s pretty apparent that Roosh/ToeJam was responding to Pleo’s post of scum having no easy way to coordinate. Which was a rather badly worded statement that seemed to have confused a few others as well.

vote Captain Klutz

[Hoopy_Frood]

@Drain_Bead

Herself, damn it.

Yeah, that’s a reference to the Arkham Asylum game. I had a role with a post restriction that involved me not being able to use the letter B. I had to replace it with G every time. In a game involving Batman, this got a bit ridiculous. That’s why folks still refer to that game as “Gatman” occasionally. Or maybe that’s only me.

You didn’t actually have a role with a post restriction. You chose a cover role the mods had given the scum that included a post restriction that you decided to run with. (Kudos for the effort on that, BTW.)

However, someone noticed that you occasionally slipped up on the restriction. Which led to that same player (or someone else) asking the mods that if someone did have a post restriction of that type, would they be punished? Boozy and Roosh were put in a bit of an awkward position of answering a hypothetical question on a situation that wasn’t actually going to ever happen in the game. Their answer to the meta-hypothetical was pretty amusing once one realized the whole thing was moot.

[bufftabby]

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Bufftabby’s lynch-the-lurker philosophy also caught my eye but I may be projecting because I will definitely look like I’m lurking this game compared to previously.

My only “lynch the lurker” philosophy is that IF we are lynching a lurker, we consciously make an effort to lynch one that will yield some sort of information. That’s it.

[Hoopy_Frood]

@Total_Lost

Super Mario on idlemafia with dotchan posting:
Did my kill go through?

She was lynched for it. She was scum.

I rather enjoyed her WIFOM in her post-lynch goodbye post where she dropped a comment about two other players who were still alive in the game implying they were fellow scum with her. While it annoyed me as being against the spirit of the game (since dead people tell no tales) it gave me as detective two people to investigate over the next two nights, both of which turned out to be town and helped me create that massive pool of confirmed townies.

@snfaulkner

…I’d stick my dick in the mashed potatoes!

Hey! None of that! This game doesn’t need any dicktaters telling us what to do!

@Crys75

You’re drinking the kool aid!! Meeko does this stuff all the time which is why I usually vote him early myself. However he seems to be doing the normal Meeko.

Yep. I’m actually leaning town on him because of this. Meeko actually tends to be more on the rails when he’s scum, oddly enough. So far, this seems to be classic townie Meeko behavior to me.

@Meeko

So you are saying, we can’t touch this?

Coincidentally, my partner Liz is currently rewatching last year’s Top Chef episode where Hammer was a guest star right now

@Thing_Fish

So. Pleonast.

You come into the thread and immediately claim Vanilla Town, which is weird but whatever. Then you immediately start talking about what you feel would be the best strategy for scum. A strategy which, by definition, couldn’t be discussed on the scum boards.

You don’t do this in the context of offering any ideas about how Town might counter this. You just say “Oh noes, if scum think of doing* this* not-particularly-obvious thing, we’re all screwed!”

Why, as Town, would you do that?

Because he’s Pleonast. That’s what he does. Especially the “Vanilla Town” claim.

[Hoopy_Frood]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that given the scum ability to kill doctors by attacking the target they’re protecting, I think the patsy claiming would be a bad thing at this point. Otherwise, I’d be in agreement with it. I think those who are saying “patsy claiming on Day 1 is a good thing” were forgetting that there is no WIFOM. Either the Patsy gets attacked by scum and dies. Or the patsy gets attacked by scum and any and all protective roles that are protecting that character are dead. Seriously, this situation is bad for town. Just bad. It’s a no-brainer for scum to target the patsy. And because the scum kills occur in opposite halves of the daycycle (Hail Computer!), we could have both of these occur. The Mafia could target the Patsy during day and kill the protectors. And then the Wolves target by night and kill the Patsy (or if any protectors decide to protect yet again.)

Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

[sinjin]

@Colby11

It is apparent that based off the color from Night 0 and Day 1,we have 36 townies, 4 3rd parties, and 14 non-town players. Nice catch to whomever caught it Night 0.

But it means that there is going to be a lot of carnage in this game. I think the fire is probably from the other team, or an arsonist. We do have 2 sets of scum in this game, so it’s safe to assume that each get a kill.

I also need to check out the roles available to see what powers we are working with. I hate playing on my phone. Cheese out

For the love of Og I am going to the other side. All you guys saying this is a slip, did you read the third sentence of the second paragraph? Where Colby specifically calls out the 2 sets of scum?

I read his “other team” as the third parties. YMMV.

Vote ToeJam For the questions I raised in night zero. And ToeJams lame defense of those questions.