Family business took over most of the day (kids…they’re so damn needy with wanting food and parental attention, I tell you…), so I haven’t been able to read the thread.
BUT, I did spend quite a bit of time in the rules post and the roles post, and something odd has occurred to me*.
Do Mafia/Wolves have a standard nightkill? I see where the Godfather has a daykill and the Alpha Wolf has a nightkill, plus there are some roles with “target someone and if x happens then they die” nighttime actions, but do they have the standard nighttime “We choose to kill <that guy>” action?
I can’t imagine that they don’t, simply because those teams would be seriously nerfed if they lost their respective leaders, but I don’t see anything stating that they do.
*Holy crap, I hope this hasn’t already been pointed out and discussed/explained already.
The team night/day kills are listed under the Godfather/Alpha powers probably because they are the ultimate voice on who gets killed if their team cant make up their minds.
Also, I believe I saw it mentioned that the Scum ‘Team Kills’ are not tied to a particular player, so they are not watchable/trackable/blockable…or am I just imagining that?
Well, clearly I’m not trying to appear pro-town. (The night thread was completely overwhelming to me, and I will catch up when I can but it was a choice between diving in or giving up.)
I wasn’t stating suspicions of the people voting Colby, I was agreeing with the original statement saying that if in fact Colby is scum, some of his teammates would have jumped to bus him, so if he is lynched and flips some sort of scum, then I think we should look more carefully at his voters and probably find teammates there.
Well, I just explained this in a previous post, but yeah, it’s more unaffected concern. It’s an easy vote on your part, though-- you’re voting me for being anti-town? Do you really think scum would be admitting they hadn’t read the rules? I could easily come in here and just make random comments and slide through.
I was recently watching a documentary about Christopher Kimball recreating a Victorian era menu from the Boston cooking school. It was mentioned repeatedly that one of the hardest things about doing the recreation was that in the Victorian era some actions that were so common they didn’t need to be explained ike how to boil a valve’s head for mock turtle soup) were totally forgotten today. So the recipes have gigantic gaps of assumed knowledge where they didn’t feel they needed to spell out every single tiny detail of very very common activities. Much the way a moden cookbook would not explain how to measure flour.
Why do I bring this up as people start Nit picking the rules?
It makes sense regardless of Colby’s alignment. If Colby is Scum, then leaving the bandwagon could mean that septimus is Scum and wants to save him. If Colby is Town, then leaving the bandwagon could mean that septimus thinks he’s going to hang anyway, and doesn’t want the blood to be seen to be on his hands. The problem is lack of accountability: If septimus thinks Colby is a reasonable vote (as evidenced by the fact that he did vote for him), and doesn’t have any better prospect in mind (as evidenced by not voting for someone else), then why isn’t he voting for him?
And yes, I do find that a bit suspect for septimus, but I don’t think it’s enough to move my vote. Especially given the presence of multiple Scum teams, as he points out in 345.
On another note, on re-reading I realized that we do know more about the switches. I think most people glossed over it because it was in the same post as the link to the roles document, and we all went off and read that big long thing:
So what we know from this is that some powers have switches, those that do have two switches, and the switches were given out in separate PMs (hence why they don’t show up in the big-ass document, and probably what took the mods so long to get things started). Given that the game has three main factions, I’m guessing that all three have switch-controlled roles, with the two switches for each being held by the other two factions. Assuming no coordination between the switch-holders, this probably leads to a 50% chance of each of those powers functioning (on most cycles, at least: The three switch-related one-time powers probably override the ordinary switches).
This has implications, in particular, for the doc-killer scum roles (Hitman and Outrider, which were the roles I found most troubling). We’d been assuming that, given a single confirmed Townie, the Scum would be likely to use the doc-killer on that player, and that if they did, they’d kill the protector. But it looks like it might be more like, they kill the protector, if the doc-killer isn’t turned off, and if the protector also isn’t turned off. This makes it a lot safer for a protector to target a confirmed Townie.
On the matter of discussing power roles, I consider it mostly harmless and possibly helpful to discuss Scum powers: My general thinking is that, with seven people who know they can trust each other, all thinking together, they’re probably going to come up with any idea we have, anyway. But thinking about what they do can, sometimes maybe, help us come up with counters.
I also think it’s good to discuss Town power roles. Putting my money where my mouth is (spoilered for space):
[spoiler]Patsy: I’ve already said that they should eventually claim, but not until mid-game when there are a bunch of other confirmed.
Watcher: People (Town and Scum alike) are most likely to be targeting those most likely to get Scum-killed. The catch is that in this game, the Scum factional kills aren’t considered actions, and won’t get seen. You might see a Doc-killer targeting someone, or you might see a Doctor doing so (or both). Since you can’t tell which is which, it’s probably best to wait until the claims start flying to reveal your results.
Seer/Detective: Don’t worry too much about accidentally hitting a Scum leader or the Patsy; it happens sometimes and there’s not much you can do about it. You probably want to hold onto results a little longer than usual before revealing, though I’m not sure by how much, and it may depend on the effect of the switches.
Investigative Journalist: While you can investigate the same person twice, I think it’s probably better to always look for whichever faction is currently stronger. If, say, we manage to kill off all seven Wolves, then any investigations you have lying around that say “not a Wolf” are going to become useless. If one Scum team has lost their leader, then you probably want to focus on the other, due to your power not being fooled by them. Also remember that, even if you do investigate someone twice, they’re still not completely cleared, because they might be 3rd party.
Investigators in general: The only way to be absolutely certain that someone is a Townie, from investigations, is to have one of three cases: 1, the Seer/Detective tests the person as Town (to rule out 3rd party), the Journalist tests them as Not-Wolf (to rule out Alpha), and the Journalist tests them as Not-Mafia (to rule out Godfather), 2, the Seer/Detective tests them as Town, one Scum leader is dead, and the Journalist tests them as not the other, or 3, the Seer/Detective with both Scum leaders dead. Absolute certainty is too expensive; we’d get much better value from using those investigations on different people.
Tinkerer: All I can say is, it’ll hopefully be obvious what power to use when, when the time comes.
EMT/Doctor: Assuming that I’m right about the switches, I think that this role should mostly be played as it usually is. Also, if you protect someone and the expected Scum kill seems to be missing that cycle, you should consider claiming, because that’s pretty good evidence that your target is not a member of that Scum team.
Wizard: I don’t know who suggested it before, but the idea of holding off until one of the other protector dies, and then taking over the protection duties on that phase, might make sense. Alternately, you might want to wait until there are multiple confirmed, and use up all (well, most) of your protections at once. I don’t think there’s a strong argument for using your seventh and suicidal protection, because even once you’ve used up your (non-suicidal) protections, you’re still a unique role and hence self-confirming, which makes you decently powerful.
Masons: Standard strategy seems to apply. When the time comes, mass claim for a big confirmed set, and try to avoid claiming until then.
Understudy: Pretty straightforward. When you need to decide, pick the most valuable role available. Of note, if we’re getting close to the Understudy’s deadline and no valuable power roles have claimed, the other power roles might want to consider playing it a bit riskier that cycle.
Zoning inspector/Leprechaun: A lot less useful than the standard role-blocker, given that the Scum faction kills can’t be blocked. Your best bet is probably to target people who’ve claimed vanilla, since that way, you won’t be doing any harm if they’re telling the truth.
Batman: I’m still not sure if a mandatory Vig is a net help or hindrance to Town. On the one hand, of course you should hit people you suspect, but on the other hand, you probably want to prefer people who’ve been under some pressure, so they’ll have a chance to claim if needed.
Scum teams: I see three main asymmetries between the teams, all of which point to the Mafia being a slightly bigger threat than the Wolves. One, the game starts in Day, so they’ll always (barring protections) have either the same number of kills, or one more, than the Wolves. Two, their kills, being during the Day, don’t empower our multi-lynch ability. Three (though I consider this a minor one), the Bodyguard can stop a Vig kill, but (due to timing) the Beta can’t.[/spoiler]
On the “logged in” thing, I’m against using that, for two reasons. One, I don’t think it’s meaningful, since there are plenty of alignment-neutral reasons for doing something on the board without posting in this thread. For instance, if I have 15 minutes to kill, I might poke around in other forums, but I’m not going to even attempt to look at this monster of a thread. And two, it feels to me like it’s skirting right up against the edge of being prohibited communication. Our information is supposed to be coming from within this thread, not from profiles.
Agree that it’s an easy vote, not necessarily a bad vote. And scum WOULD do that. In fact, there’s not much I wouldn’t put past a scum!Angel to do. :rolleyes:
Due to a confluence of factors over the new year and such, work has destroyed me these last couple days, so I wasn’t able to get back to the game until now. A variety of thoughts and comments to follow.
Based on the fact that Night 0 was not really official start time, combined with the lack of role PM confirmation, I would not put any real weight into N0 comments for the purposes of alignment. I know that I received my PM quite a bit later than other people did, based on the few people who did confirm in thread, so there’s no real way to know whether or not someone actually knew what alignment they had when any given post was made. It’s the reason I was willing to make fluffy reminisce posts in there, which I normally dislike as it distracts from the game itself.
I still think the Patsy should claim Today, though there doesn’t need to be a rush on it. The benefits outweigh any potential drawbacks. As for the fear of protector roles being killed by the scum protector killer roles, I don’t see a lot of benefit to protecting a Patsy this early. Sure, one of the scum teams could decide to off that person, but it’s far more likely they will go hunting for other, more dangerous power roles. Yes yes, Patsy is confirmed town at the end, but only one confirmed Town. The investigative roles have the potential to confirm far more than just one, which is way more powerful.
When I first read the colby maybe slip, it jumped out hard at me. My immediate reaction was, whoa, really? Then I read others takes and I could see where they were coming from. But his actions since then are pretty suspicious, so I’m likely leaning this way.
Snuggling, or more accurately accusations of snuggling, is dumb. If a case made against someone is bad, calling it bad is good town behavior. It’s not strictly on the person being accused to make counter arguments, everyone should feel free to do so.
Using board information to tell if someone is logged in or not, and then using said information against/for them, is metagamey as hell and I very much against it.
I’m pretty sure the Patsy would take two uses of the Journalist to confirm, but I don’t know why you would bother. The Patsy is a self-confirming role really. If two people claim it, lynch one. Either that person will be the scum, or they’ll kill the actual scum. Either outcome is good.
Let me break this up so it isn’t a book in one post.
AngeloftheNorth might be lazy town for not reading the rules and stuff, but I don’t see that as scummy. Anti-town sure, but not scummy.
(Also, her name and my name feel like they should be related huh? Totally a coincidence though.)
I mostly play at work during the day. This week I haven’t had time so I’m spending some evening time doing it instead. This is not usual for me.
Johnny Bravo’s attack on Meeko is awful. Commenting in the wrong thread happens from time to time, it’s neither scummy not towny. Attacking someone for it however is scummy, since it’s an easy out to vote someone that will pick up easy votes just by being himself.
Scum would totally do that, yes, but there’s a logical limit to that thinking. For example, they won’t come into a game on D1 and post a full list of all scum players. What would be the point? Any play that they think will increase their chances of winning they will do though. I think too often people go too far in one direction or the other. They either refuse to believe someone is scummy that has the potential to increase scum odds of winning because scum would never do that, or they refuse to reject ridiculous ideas because scum would totally do that! even if it decreases their chance to win the game. The important thing to ask yourself is, Is this thing I’m trying to decide is scummy or not likely to increase or decrease the scums chance of winning? Don’t get all caught up in WIFOM knots, because that way lies madness.
Something I’ve seen in a several games is town talking themselves out of a scum lynch because it was too bandwagony, and clearly it can’t possibly be that easy so this person must actually be town. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar. If it looks like a scum, it might just be a scum.
vote colby
That said, I can see benefit in what septimus and sach brought up about voting for someone other than the lynch leader when there’s a clear runaway. It is a way to make sure that your suspicions of other people are on the record in a firmer way than just posting. Just be aware that if you try to weasel out of a town bandwagon by saying “I didn’t vote for them!”, you will be held accountable.
You are seriously overthinking this. Look at the rules for the Godfather for example.
“As the leader of the Mafia team, you may meet with your troops at a location to be provided under separate cover to discuss strategy by Day or by Night. Each Day, your team must select a target for its Day kill and post it in red at your private board; if your team is unable to reach consensus on a kill, yours is the final word on the matter.”
They clearly have a regular old, team voted Daykill.
And the Alphawolf
“As the leader of the Wolf team, you may meet with your troops at a location to be provided under separate cover to discuss strategy by Day or by Night. Each Night, your team must select a target for its Night kill and post it in red at your private board; if your team is unable to reach consensus on a kill, yours is the final word on the matter.”
They clearly have a regular old, team voted Nightkill.
I could be a total jerk here you know. Because the literal answer is no. But, I like you guys. Yes. One Day kill one Night kill depending on if you are on the Day actions team or the Night actions team.
I don’t know and… Well I do know but it’s a long answer which for some reason involves storks and bees. Honestly, you will probably just get hurt if you try it. You are better off living with the mystery and adopting.