Mafia Reunion - NIGHT ZERO

[wonky]

@bufftabby

[ul]
[li]**Lynch the Lurker **I think this is a good option in this game, since we’ve got multiple lynches Daily. I’m really liking multiple lynches the more I think about it, y’all. We’ll want to focus on lynching lurkers that will actually provide us with info in their deaths, i.e. they’ve voted or been voted for, when employing this strategy.[/li][/ul]

Isn’t that contradictory? If we want to lynch someone who gives some data, the lurker doesn’t seem like the best person to lynch.

I think multi-lynch will be inevitable but maybe not ideal. It’s hard to get people to pay attention, and with ML it might be one of those cases where we would need to get people to change votes at the last minute to trigger the ML or defeat the ML or control the ML. I just see it as one of those things where we’re always backing into ML. But I still think it would be better to have complete carnage than to have a no lynch early on.

I am neutral on the Patsy claiming. It seems advantageous at first blush, but I’m not a mafia savant who sees several steps ahead.

[wonky]

@jsgoddess

Isn’t that contradictory? If we want to lynch someone who gives some data, the lurker doesn’t seem like the best person to lynch.

I didn’t finish my thought. I was going to say that I do prefer lynching the lurker to lynching the loud.

[bufftabby]

@jsgoddess

Isn’t that contradictory? If we want to lynch someone who gives some data, the lurker doesn’t seem like the best person to lynch.

I don’t see how? I’m saying that if we’re going to lynch a lurker, and there are multiple lurkers to choose from, to choose the lurker that will potentially yield more data. I don’t know how to really quantify that out of thin air, but it could depend on vote records, both of the lurker and against them, or claims of particular actions/results.

[wonky]

@bufftabby

I don’t see how? I’m saying that if we’re going to lynch a lurker, and there are multiple lurkers to choose from, to choose the lurker that will potentially yield more data. I don’t know how to really quantify that out of thin air, but it could depend on vote records, both of the lurker and against them, or claims of particular actions/results.

I guess I’m thinking of hardcore lurker types who aren’t really participating.

[Pleonast]

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.

[LightFoot]

RE: Lynch the lurker
In this game the sheer number of players has a new set of conditions.

we have a cross section of time zones .

LTL if considered at all should only be tabulated at the end of a Day cycle.

Some people are sure to be away for a whole day because of life, not alignment.

LtF ( Lynch the Fluffer) would be a better back up plan if Scum hunting hits a wall. Content, not Volume is what we need to solve the puzzles.

[LightFoot]

@Pleonast

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.

I don’t see a connection to the current discussion ( although there need not be one)
And I agree .
As many of us are aware the discussion will often bring out PIS .And the hive minds that are the Scum factions will catch right on.

as to the edit bit- it is the risk the editors take - it is even mentioned in the rules that many will find it suspect.

[Meeko]

@Pleonast

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.

Oh yeah…this guy… The abrasives come back out almost instantly.

[Meeko]

@Pleonast

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

Pleonast what is the difference between claiming town, and being confirmed town? And how should we reconcile that, with yours above?

Further, are you suggesting that there aren’t concrete (Dominant Strategies) that veterans can share with the noobs, that have next to none, if any downsides? Something such as “Don’t trust Pleonast farther than you can throw him” or similar?
.
.
.
.

[Giraffe]

@Mahaloth

**I’m not sure how to do that, so I did PM giraffe to ask. Anyone know how to make it work on here? How to host it, or whatever?

Even if we do use it, we will still keep track manually and the vote counter is not final word on who dies.**

Here it is, by the way.

Hi everyone. I’d be happy to let you guys use the vote robot here, but unfortunately the script as written required some tweaks that aren’t in place here. The biggest one I know of is the maximum number of posts per page – I added an option to GB to allow 50,000 posts per page to ensure a thread can always be displayed as a single page, otherwise posts that go beyond the first page of a thread don’t get counted. I may have tweaked the style sheet a bit too, I don’t remember exactly – I remember there were some issues with parsing out votes within quotes correctly. Using the vote/unvote tags was the easiest way to fix it on GB, I don’t know how compatible the style sheets are here or if the same issues would crop up.

I did go ahead and add the SDMB to the robot’s white list if you want to try it, but I’m afraid it’s very unlikely to work unless you can convince the admins here to make some tweaks to the display settings.

[snfaulkner]

@LightFoot

.l
LtF ( Lynch the Fluffer) would be a better back up plan if Scum hunting hits a wall. Content, not Volume is what we need to solve the puzzles.

*punches adult SNF in the face

I’ll never lynch the fluffer! Fluffers gotta fluff!

Ok, I’ll go back to my enbourbonment.

[ToeJam]

Sinjin, Guiri, Normal Phase
Is there anything I can help to clear up on why you 3 find me suspicious? Sinjin had questions, so I can address those. The other two just snuggled up behind SJ, so I’ll be here waiting to hear from you guys.

** Sinjin **:
Do you have issues with me thinking out loud? When I went through the paragraph (hereyou quote it), I showed my work.

You quote portions of my statements, and ask why did I bring up the previous one- because I don’t want to leave them out. If I present only one side of an argument, that’s kinda scummy. I want to consider both sides (and as you pointed me pointing out- I even stated that one option is LESS likely, and the other is more likely).

Now, you ask why would scum kill the Patsy (your third statement)? Because of what I said afterwards- The Scum factions ALSO have to deal with the WIFOM that the Patsy is a false claim. It’s not likely, but Each scum faction has to worry about the possibility that the OTHER scum faction might have done it.
That doesn’t really matter early game (especially for Town), but late game- the scum group is going to get antys about the idea of a False claiming Patsy, and since it’d add to their kills if it WAS a real patsy, and if it WAS a fake-claim, it’d be pro-Scum to take out the Patsy the further we get into the late game.

It’s all WIFOM. But it’s more and more WIFOM for the Scum the later it gets into the game with an uncounterclaimed Patsy (who ideally should be town, because… as I noted, it’d be really really risky for scum to counterclaim and trade 1:1 that early in the game, putting them immediately behind the other scum group). Hence the Doc’s get to WIFOM if they want to protect a potential Townie role that ScumA might actually be thinking about killing.

That’s what I meant by my lines on the matter.
Also, if you notice- I do at the end summarize my thinking aloud with what I actually DO think of the whole matter: *Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. *

That’s the takeaway. The rest of it is WIFOM if you’re scum, if you’re a doctor, and if you’re not town. Which is what I want to do. I want to pour WIFOM for scum. I’m not going to make it easier on them. And if you’re scum, you better continue to expect such WIFOM.

If you’re town, just ask me to clarify, and I will clarify (or I’ll probably clarify on my own, as I did there in that post).

So now, Sinjin, you’re fine. But Normal Phase, Guiri. What’s up? It’s rather easy to jump on and go “me too”, but if you’ve actually got Qs, I’m still alive. Otherwise, I’ll just keep your snuggling in mind for the future.
-R

[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

@Giraffe

Hi everyone. I’d be happy to let you guys use the vote robot here, but unfortunately the script as written required some tweaks that aren’t in place here. The biggest one I know of is the maximum number of posts per page – I added an option to GB to allow 50,000 posts per page to ensure a thread can always be displayed as a single page, otherwise posts that go beyond the first page of a thread don’t get counted. I may have tweaked the style sheet a bit too, I don’t remember exactly – I remember there were some issues with parsing out votes within quotes correctly. Using the vote/unvote tags was the easiest way to fix it on GB, I don’t know how compatible the style sheets are here or if the same issues would crop up.

I did go ahead and add the SDMB to the robot’s white list if you want to try it, but I’m afraid it’s very unlikely to work unless you can convince the admins here to make some tweaks to the display settings.

Thank you for your efforts! Much appreciated.

[Meeko]

@Giraffe

I added an option to GB to allow 50,000 posts per page to ensure a thread can always be displayed as a single page,

Challenge Accepted.

[ToeJam]

@Pleonast

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

Isn’t that doing the Scum’s Job for them?

Day 1: I think the Patsy Claim would force scum to make a decision- counterclaim vs. let the townies gain a “town” role. It’s really disadvantageous for scum to counterclaim- primarily because much of the Scum roles are power roles, and a 1:1 trade would set that team behind the other scum team (I could see the Mook or the most ‘generic’ Scum member maybe considering the counter-claim, but again- less likely. The fact that there’s two competing scum groups makes it advantageous for the Town to have the Patsy claim, because the town wants to have the two scum groups deal with each other as much as possible. That’s why early on, Town has the numbers game, but also the fact that the two groups are equal. The longer that two scum groups are equal- the more the two scum groups are going to want to prioritize taking other the other team.

That’s why it’d be ideal to try to keep the numbers even, but I see no easy obvious way to know which scum group is which and killing them A,B,A,B, etc. So as a Townie, I’d say lynching the scummiest as much as possible, and if it’s all from one team, it’ll only make that team all the more desperate to want to root out the other scum group because they suddenly have just as much to lose when the town goes down.

That’s what I’m prepared for. Anything more than that- I can’t really think of it off the top. I mean, there’s the basics- you mix your scums up- you put someone in the lurkers, you put some in the super townie group, you put someone in the helpful townies, you put someone in the antagonist townie role, someone in the snuggling role, and then you have them interact with each other and fight and you spread out your votes and try to blend in. But that’s Mafia 101 across the board, and I think you know that too.
Did you have something else in mind? I’m always pro-discussion and I’m glad to see the ball rolling in productive posts at least.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate.

Did the Mods Clarify this or did I miss something. Do the Scum get their own boards? They must if they’re coordinating who to kill and all, or did I miss something here?

-Are you assuming that there are no Scum Boards? Did Mafia change really that much since I’ve been gone?

[NAF1138]

@ToeJam

L.

Did the Mods Clarify this or did I miss something. Do the Scum get their own boards? They must if they’re coordinating who to kill and all, or did I miss something here?

-Are you assuming that there are no Scum Boards? Did Mafia change really that much since I’ve been gone?

:dubious:

They say there are no dumb questions and yet… Here we are.

I officially hate that we said we would answer all questions in green.

[Normal_Phase]

@ToeJam

Sinjin, Guiri, Normal Phase
Is there anything I can help to clear up on why you 3 find me suspicious? Sinjin had questions, so I can address those. The other two just snuggled up behind SJ, so I’ll be here waiting to hear from you guys.

** Sinjin **:
Do you have issues with me thinking out loud? When I went through the paragraph (hereyou quote it), I showed my work.

You quote portions of my statements, and ask why did I bring up the previous one- because I don’t want to leave them out. If I present only one side of an argument, that’s kinda scummy. I want to consider both sides (and as you pointed me pointing out- I even stated that one option is LESS likely, and the other is more likely).

Now, you ask why would scum kill the Patsy (your third statement)? Because of what I said afterwards- The Scum factions ALSO have to deal with the WIFOM that the Patsy is a false claim. It’s not likely, but Each scum faction has to worry about the possibility that the OTHER scum faction might have done it.
That doesn’t really matter early game (especially for Town), but late game- the scum group is going to get antys about the idea of a False claiming Patsy, and since it’d add to their kills if it WAS a real patsy, and if it WAS a fake-claim, it’d be pro-Scum to take out the Patsy the further we get into the late game.

It’s all WIFOM. But it’s more and more WIFOM for the Scum the later it gets into the game with an uncounterclaimed Patsy (who ideally should be town, because… as I noted, it’d be really really risky for scum to counterclaim and trade 1:1 that early in the game, putting them immediately behind the other scum group). Hence the Doc’s get to WIFOM if they want to protect a potential Townie role that ScumA might actually be thinking about killing.

That’s what I meant by my lines on the matter.
Also, if you notice- I do at the end summarize my thinking aloud with what I actually DO think of the whole matter: *Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. *

That’s the takeaway. The rest of it is WIFOM if you’re scum, if you’re a doctor, and if you’re not town. Which is what I want to do. I want to pour WIFOM for scum. I’m not going to make it easier on them. And if you’re scum, you better continue to expect such WIFOM.

If you’re town, just ask me to clarify, and I will clarify (or I’ll probably clarify on my own, as I did there in that post).

So now, Sinjin, you’re fine. But Normal Phase, Guiri. What’s up? It’s rather easy to jump on and go “me too”, but if you’ve actually got Qs, I’m still alive. Otherwise, I’ll just keep your snuggling in mind for the future.
-R

It looked like busy-work. Still does. Way too many words to describe a somewhat tortured scenario. Are you a wolf for it? Heck if I know. But it’s a thing.

Furthermore, I like sinjin’s process in questioning you on it. I’m not ready to call her townie for it with multiple scum teams running around, but it’s a positive sign.

[Normal_Phase]

@Pleonast

I see little benefit and plenty of risks in discussing what town roles should or should not do. Let each player decide the best course for their own role. Remember, at least a quarter of current players have win conditions in opposition to ours. Do not take advice from anyone not confirmed as Town. Reread the second sentence of this paragraph.

If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to.

And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.

Hey Pleo.

ETA: Remember that Thundercats Mafia game where we were the mafia with Inner Stickler and you and I won at final 5?

Also also ETA: Good times, good times.

Furthermore ETA: No, I have nothing to say to you about this game, I’m just tweaking your nose.

[LightFoot]

** ToeJam ** set the coffee pot down a minute- the factions can’t communicate across borders- I think was the point

[sachertorte]

@NAF1138

Pretty solid memory. And it absolves current mods of any wrong doing. I like it.

Oh yeah. Before Cookies kicked scum butt, scummy scum NAF got lynched too.