“If I were a woman.” But you aren’t. Being a woman is my experience. Most women are not going to spend any amount of time learning knife fighting. Many do I am sure, but that’s just not practical for most people. Telling random strangers on the internet to carry a knife into a bar (which is a crime in some states) is bad advice, no matter how you cut it. Advice everyone can use: carry pepper spray, go out in a group, note the exits, and note the employees.
And she was drunk, or tipsey if you will.
Her knife training would mean a whole lot less in that case.
I wouldn’t go that far. It’s bad advice in your opinion, and I respect your opinion so I’ll leave it at that and we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Not only is that perfectly good advice, it’s advisable. I simply object to women being at the mercy of drunken men twice their size, as the OP was.
With regard to the “wiseass” comment I choked down, I’ll say it with a little bit of temperance: when the blade is buried in the guy to the hilt, he’s not deflecting anything. He’s dropping like a stone. As I said before, I’m talking about a “last resort” thing. Why should women have to live in fear? Walk away. If he follows, go to the nearest group of people. If you’re cornered and there is no help, come out swinging.
I suppose that this is an extreme example, but given the obvious concern of the OP there is nothing too extreme to bring up as an option.
I think that’s something we can pretty much all agree on. It just seems quite dangerous to me personally to add a weapon into the mix, at least out in the open.
Fucker follows me home though and he’s hearing from Mr. Armalite.
Yes, clearly that’s what I was advocating. In fact, there is no middle ground between doing nothing and beating him senseless.
Look, I apologize if I unfairly singled you out. Now that it has been made clear even to idiots like me that your motivations were benign, I would still advise against a possible escalation of violence in that particular case. Pulling a weapon on him after the fact, as some have suggested, seems like a singularly bad idea to me. In the absence of immediate threat to your safety, trying to defuse and extricate yourself from the situation, as did the OP, strikes me as a wiser course of action. Then, of course, report his ass to the cops.
And on preview: my original comment should probably have been directed at Airman Doors rather than Rick.
Way to back-pedal there. Your first post demanded to know “why [she] didn’t . . .call the police and. . . have him arrested.” And when she told you why she didn’t do that, your response was to tell her you weren’t "going to pick on [her] further, and then went on to tell her it was her “responsibility to both [her]self and the next victim to get him entered into The System.” That was not advice-giving, that was, in fact, chastising her for not doing what you thought she should have done. So yeah, in your own words, you were picking on her.
And to be clear, you weren’t the only one, just the first, wherein at least 2 other people chimed in in agreement, so I wasn’t singling you out as the only one making her feel bad about her decision.
Have you ever used or been pepper sprayed? You might want to give it a shot. It is by no means fun, but it is certainly neither foolproof nor incapacitating.
Hell, as I mentioned upthread, there are tons of alternatives to carrying a weapon to defend oneself. But most of the crap women get taught - pepper spray, instep stomp, keys between knuckles, etc. - are pretty much bullshit.
Easiest thing is to be alert and not get yourself in positions where ugly shit is more likely to happen.
You undoubtedly are infinitely more expert than I on being a woman. But your posts suggest you don’t know a damned thing about what is involved in defending oneself.
It’s also not potentially criminal or fatal to carry such an item around. And I have been in the same room that pepper spray has been used in, which was certainly not fun (and I didn’t even get it directly) but at least I recovered quickly.
Knives are also not foolproof, and brandishing one in a bar is almost certain to escalate the situation. What are you gonna do when you find out you brought a knife to a gun fight?
I agree with this the most.
So what should I do, in your oh so expert opinion? I should go in for knife training? Instead of using my brain to not get into such a position in the first place, or using an evasive tactic? Maybe you should quit law and go into training we women to defend ourselves, because obviously none of us have a clue.
I’m no self-defense expert. If it comes to that, I’m barely competent. My understanding has been that where much of the so-called common self-defense advice people give to the uninitiated fails is that it only gives the first step: The goal of any of the tactics you’d mentioned is not to incapacitate an attacker, as you mention, not even pepper spray is a 100% incapacitator, but to slow down the attacker enough that the would-be-victim can get to a safe zone. Without that vital second part of the defense, using many of those tactics can be self-defeating, and serve to make a bad situation worse.
IOW, I don’t think that any of the tactics are pure bullshit (though I’m going to admit I’ve always had my doubts about the keys one), just that the way they’re usually passed on - they become bullshit because there’s no plan for follow through.
If my understanding is flawed (as often happens, I’ll admit) please let me know.
I am so not having a conversation with you.
Well then don’t call me out with the whole “some people” game. Grow up.
I…see. Are you finished now? Put your thinking cap on; we wouldn’t want to make any unfortunate mistakes.
Actually, it is potentially both criminal and fatal. Legality varies widely, from being sold without restrictions to requiring registrations and restrictions on felons possessing it. For people with severe allergies or breathing problems it can be fatal.
I don’t doubt the allergy issue, but are you sure you are not referring to Mace WRT to registration/restriction? I know when I worked security (here in CA) you had to have a special permit for a high-capacity pepper spray dispensers, but never for small pocket dispensers.
N/M, I see from the wiki article that it is restricted in a few jurisdictions. Not mine though, so I’ll hold on to my pepper spray, thanks.
Yeah, that’s just what the dozen or so other people in the same area of a crowded dance floor want. Intoxicated women whipping out a can of pepper spray (from God knows where) to take aim at the eyes of the moving target that just groped them.
I’m not talking about using it in the case of a groping, but rather in the case of, say, pursuit or an encounter in a parking lot. Using pepper spray against a grope in a bar is excessive force.
One hopes that in a public situation such as the OP was in that it wouldn’t come to anything more than that, but you can never be quite sure.
Another small town Wisconsinite checking in. First and foremost, to express some empathy–that kind of thing can spoil an evening. My two cents worth–do whatever you need to do to make sure that’s the only thing it spoils. Let it go, take action, chat with us here. Take it seriously or drop it–whatever will minimize the impact on you.
I work with law enforcement personnel and one thing you might consider is getting in touch with a local female officer. Your town may not have one, but the county patrol is likely to. Get her advice on what would work best given the “micro-environment.” I got some good advice from a female DNR warden on a man who was stalking my daughter–far more personalized advice because we could talk specifics and she knew the community.
I’m sorry to the extent I caused this thread to become hijacked.
I’m no expert, but fighting and self defense are something I have worked with and thought of a great deal, and is one of the very few areas I feel I know a little bit about. And I’m regularly surprised at what I consider to be misinformation and misunderstanding about what is involved in defending oneself in a physical altercation.
The OP certainly should not have to put up with being groped by some drunk. I am interested in hearing her thoughts as to what - if anything - she might have done differently if she could replay the night, or if something similar occurs in the future.
Advisable advice is the very best kind of advice!