clayton_e, what I’m getting is that you live in a college town with any number of young women, and yet you’ve put yourself in a job and a daily routine that insulates you from any contact with them. In other words, this is your own doing.
I’m not saying this to bust your chops, but rather to urge you to look at why this might be. Maybe you’re not into having a relationship just now. Maybe something burned you in the past, and you’re now a little gun-shy. Maybe you’ve just let yourself fall into a rut.
Without fail, every single guy I’ve heard complain that women don’t like “nice guys” has actually been complaining that filthy rich Carmen Electra lookalikes don’t come breaking down his door by the dozen.
Ironically the best example I can think of with this from my experience was a woman. She was a 35-year-old 5’1 200 lb unemployed lesbian (not that there’s anything wrong with that) with thinning hair and bad skin, and she ALWAYS became obsessed with very beautiful straight girls. Needless to say, nothing ever came of these attractions and she’d then rage to all her friends endlessly about being unable to get a date.
I am not a grabby desperate person. All I meant was I am not going to be clingy to someone who isn’t reciprocating. Might as well move on right? I think thats healthy, not desperate. If someone seems compatible, I will try. No sense in wasting time.
I live in an oil town of about 20000 people. More men here then women for sure, and the social scene is pretty weak, especially if you are into the arts. But I’m trying my best.
I know i kinda have two threads running on this (feel free to merge them mods if you deem it best) But I got to take the kids curling with the other teacher today. It went well. I’ll try to see if I can make something happen. And if it doesn’t work out I will try to find someone else. Please tell me I got this rule right, that if someone isn’t reciporcating, you might as well look elsewhere.
Seriously, do people get help with this or do people learn by falling on their faces and getting up. No one ever talked or helped me out with relationships. I just want to be a decent guy with an okay job and be with caring loving people. I hope thats not too much to ask.
YES. YES. YES. LOOK. ELSEWHERE. If it ain’t working, move on. Life is NOT like the movies where the hero stalks and harrasses the heroine until duh she realizes she loves him. I always say, give it three shots and if there’s nada, move on! It ain’t gonna get better, just more awkward, boring, and tiresome, and ultimately futile… Look, if you have a tire on your car that leaks out most of its air every night, and you have to stop and put air in on the way to work every day - how long are you going to keep that bad tire on life support? Are you going to walk out to the garage every morning, hoping that somehow this time the tire will not be nearly flat? Are you going to put money in the air machine and give it one more chance …for how long? (After all, you paid a lot of money for that tire! You’re a decent hard working guy who takes good care of his car, and you deserve a smooth ride, and it’s unfair that wretched tire keeps going flat!) No, you wise up and get a new tire.
Oh, yeah to that! I didn’t mean to imply druggies, etc. are necessarily dripping with wit and charm. Their negative qualities speak for themselves. … But I worked for a social services agency years ago, and it was amazing how ferociously women we were attempting to help get ahead in life clung to their loser boyfriends/husbands. Whole other subject, I know, but the ladies hotly defended their choice of men as wonderful loving spouses, and if he was an alcoholic or drug dealer or weighed 500 lbs. , well, “everyone has some kind of problem!” :smack:
They learn by falling on their faces. Seriously, when I think about the number of guys that:
a) I made an ass of myself over
or
b) Made an ass of themselves over me
it kind of staggers the imagination.
You just need to meet people, and go on dates, and spend time with women NOT on dates, and quit stressing about things so much. You’re 26. It’s not like you don’t have time to meet/screw/court/seduce/tie up with leather straps/marry at least a few women.
It sounds weird, but generally I’m really intrigued by guys who have something they are really good at, no matter what it is, and guys who have a killer sense of humor.
I thoroughly enjoy a guy who is quick witted enough to keep up with me, and clever enough to keep up a rapport…
those things are incredibly sexy!
However, i think your issue is you’re just not meeting the right kind of woman, the kind of woman who would take the things you find to be interesting and work with it…
… just food for thought?
maybe you should make a list of the things you’re looking for, not everything you’re looking for has to be on it, and try not to stick to it religiously, but that may better your ability to be more realistic when it comes to dating.
The problem with much of the advice given to the o.p. isn’t that it is wrong, but that it is necessarily broad and assumes a certain prerequisite level of social aptitude, conversational wit, and sufficient meet opportunities that one can piss away a non-trivial number of potential dating partners on inexperience or ineptitude as a learning experience. (The patent bromides are, while no doubt well intended, tiresome and border on condescending.)
Personally (and I assume that the o.p. is of somewhat the same mindset) I’m at a loss as to what to do differently to even get started trying to date successfully. I have plenty of interests outside of dating. My life is more or less together in all important ways, and I keep my emotional baggage neatly packed away in a single roller bag. I have no interest in being “a playa” or dating hordes of gorgeous women just to rack up numbers. I have a steady and good paying job that is at least intermittently challenging and interesting. I have a fair number of good female friends who think I’m some kind of catch. I’m not a self-proclaimed “nice guy,” nor do I have any tolerance for being a doormat or waffling ambiguity. My boss and co-workers think I’m a leader, and I’ll exert authority and/or take decisive action in the midst of indecision and ambivalence. I’m not uproariously funny but I can poke fun at myself. I’m well-read and can talk extensively on a wide variety of topics (sometimes to a fault). I’m a great cook. Et cetera, ad nausum. But I’ll be a damned blind pig if I can manage to get a date by any means.
I can’t really say what went wrong with any of my previous relationships; reflecting upon them only leaves me confused with why things went down so badly, and what little I could have done differently that might have made a difference. I lack any basis for examples of good relationships from growing up–my parents were the archetype for why some people shouldn’t get married or have children–and when I see them now in my adult life, from the outside, I’m perplexed as to why and how they work. I know my interactions–especially with strangers–are often “off”, or at least circumspect and tentative, and that my friends tend to compensate for my foibles (like my tendency to lecture on pedantic technical topics or deliver critical monologues about why Casablanca is a con game in which Rick is the guileless ingenue). I try to keep all of this in check, at least initially, but then I’m left with not much to present as a personality.
Despite efforts to improve and learn, or at least rack up enough numbers to find an occasional acorn, it has been years since I’ve been on a real date, or experienced (or at least recognized) any genuine interest from women who would be available for me to date. I don’t know if that reflects the o.p.'s experience, but that is my frustration with the broad advice to “be confident”, “move on,” “play the numbers game,” et cetera.
“Being confident” is stupid advice because it doesn’t really tell you what to do.
Ultimately women are people, not machines that will respond properly to you if you provide them with the right inputs. Who knows what they will or will not find attractive about you. Why do you find one girl attractive while you aren’t interested in another perfectly nice girl?
How can a work function with no particular romantic intent with somebody who probably doesn’t even know you’re interested go “well”?
Either ask her out, or knock it off.
Better yet, get a profile on OKCupid. Message every reasonably interesting woman within a 25-mile radius. Go on at least a half dozen first dates, two second dates, and get laid at least once. If the topic comes up in conversation with Ms. Wonderful, casually mention them (not the getting laid part - that’s implicit). If, after about two months of dating, you haven’t met somebody even MORE fabulous, THEN ask her out.
It sounds like you’ve already dug yourself into a hole by inappropriately fixating on one particular woman. If she rejects you, you’re going to feel like shit. Best to quit while you’re only slightly behind instead of utterly crushed.
I’m just going to throw this out here. Perhaps it’ll resonate. Perhaps not.
Maybe you have the problem of being only able to talk about things that interest you but not about things that interest her. It seems as if you recognize that you have a tendency to pontificate on subjects that might make someone’s eyes glaze over, and you are actively trying to stop that. But that’s only half of the solution. A good conversationalist knows how to engage the person they are speaking to. If you don’t do this well, then I can see why it might be hard for you to click with people.
When you’re talking to women, do you ask them questions about themselves? Not easy questions like “Where are your parents from?” But thoughtful questions that engage their minds and stimulate the gray matter. Like “What’s the one thing you feel like you’re missing in life the most?” or “Are you living the life you thought you would when you were little?”
I would love for a guy to ask me these kinds of questions in a dating or mingling situation! But all too often, all he thinks to talk about is himself. Even though I will ask him thoughtful questions, when its his turn to do the same, all I get is “So what’s your favorite TV show?” As I get older, I get more and more frustrated with this.
Dude, you know I think you’re a peach. But I really must ask - Do NONE of your good female friends know someone they can introduce you to?!?!? No recently divorced friend or sister? Some never married, somewhat crabby, but mostly nice sorority sister? A cute co-worker?
Have you asked them? Are any of them single? Really, it seems like you have access to a huge source of potential chicks that you’re totally ignoring.
msmith, I can agree with many of your points, but I think you misunderstand the OP. He wasn’t trying to pick you up, but just giving an honest description of himself.
Really? I would have thought the natural tendency was to avoid anything very deep or revealing until after getting to know each other a little bit. I’ve been wrong before though…
And Stranger, very well said. I’m still fairly young, but I see myself heading down a similar path. I read the advice in these types of threads and while it’s good advice, it seems like it’s only useful to people who are already in a position to not need much help, or at least are only doing a very specific thing wrong.
I usually just end up more confused about what I’m doing wrong than I was before…
Being a fan of your posts here on SDMB, I find this incredible.
Actually, I have read the thoughts about Casablanca that you mentioned, and used those succesfully in conversations with girls.
I think there are two factors in play here.
Women suck a little. (And before you attack me too scathingly: Men suck too. I am horribly superficial myself.) You are quite effective at rejecting guys who seem feeble or loser-like. But also you often immediately reject intelligent and great guys, just because their initial impression is a little odd or unpolished. I think you should spend a little more time trying to learn about the guy’s personality, and a little less obsessing about how good a dancer he is or how comfortable he is with talking to you in the first minute.
Anyway, the solution, at least it was for me, is to practice the first 5 minutes of the interaction. Get the eye contact right, don’t fidget, use some standard conversation piece that girls have reacted well to, etc.
2. Do you actually do anything to meet women?
Like go to bars. Or if you see a cute girl on a train. Who maybe knows someone she would like to get rid of. Or what Alice said.
Well, maybe I’m the freak. Small talk bores me to the point of infuriation. I have little interest in talking about how many brothers and sisters I have, or what kind of music I listen to. Probably because these are questions I have to answer every single time I meet someone new.
A guy who is novel and makes me think “wow, no one has ever asked me that before…let me actually ponder a minute” will go further with me than someone who keeps things on a “what’s your favorite color?” level.
My advise is pretty much the opposite of other people’s, but here goes:
Are you on friendly terms with some married/attached women where you work? Friendly enough that you engage in light conversation/banter with them on a semi-regular basis? If the answer it no - forget about dating a girl. Start by developing some conversational skills with members of the opposite sex. Preferably ones that are married so that there’s no pressure and no mixed messages.
If the answer is yes, mention to them that you’d like to find a nice girl to date and see socially. Mention that you like the cutish/10 pounds overweight gal you work with.
Mainly, you want someone who will be good company and would be happy to go with you to the movies and share a meal. Then sit back and wait for them to set you up.
If they all say that they don’t know any single women - that’s a big red flag that there’s something they don’t feel is date-worthy and you might spend some time asking about that. (And take everything they say to heart. If you smell like a boar, you might hear the word hygiene in a paragraph about how nice you are and it’s a mystery to everyone why you aren’t already married). Because, believe me, every female knows a handful of women who are single, looking for romance, and saying that they can’t find any nice men.
Re-reading what I wrote, I think it might be misconstrued that I meant all you have to do is provide the right inputs and a woman will like you. What I meant to say is that sometimes there might be absolutely nothing wrong with you and a particular woman might just think you aren’t her “type”. You could be too gregarious or too quiet or too tall or too short. But if EVERY woman doesn’t think you’re her type, well, that’s a problem.
Well, it makes sense to me. I hate small talk as well. Primarily because I am terrible at it, I must admit. However I am encouraged that success can be had with some deviation from what I had understood to be the standard protocol for conversing with a new person.
Another example of the oft-repeated advice that these strange creatures called women are in fact people with a wide variety of likes and dislikes…
