Sexual Rejection/Making the First Move--Harder on Men or Women?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Paul in Saudi’s thread about not having sex on the very first date made me think. Is there more pressure/more risk/more…angst, for a man who makes the first move or the woman?

I suppose normally one thinks that a woman is rarely turned down, so I suppose if the guy isn’t receptive, she might react as the woman did in that thread–unpleasantly.

Then again, a man probably faces more risk because the chance of her saying no seems greater, and he probably has to worry about…well, not coming off too intimidating/too strong. Well, IF he’s the kind of guy to worry about that.
Hmmm. It seems to even out.

Speaking as a straight female, I’m not sure I’d have the necessarily skill set to “conquer” my own sex. When I’m in the mood, usually just cuddling up or sitting on a guy’s lap and gyrating are enough. Somehow I’m not sure that would work on the “fairer” sex.

2

In my experience men are no less vulnerable to negative feelings of rejection, but there is more pressure on men to make the first move (even when it comes to making a call to ask a woman out on a date). It’s not that the rejection doesn’t bother a man, but men are socialized to “be a man and take the risk.”

3

There is a vibe I have gotten, even with explaining the reason behind a proposition rejection.

A woman feels that you have scorned her attractiveness, even if you have already shown signs of being strongly attracted.

I’ll go out on a limb and say that a woman feels more vulnerable in this area, because a woman’s sense of being attractive is more central to her emotional needs, on the whole.

(Notice the choice of words. More central. Not all-important, as if women were so one-dimensional as to be only concerned with being love-worthy or sex-worthy.)

  • “Jack”
4

I’ve never been a female so I lack a basis of comparison, but whilst still a virgin I got so disgusted with the entire scenario that I went on strike.

The world is chock-full of males who do not, apparently, very much like females as people, and whose interest therein is strictly (and with very little veneer) to get laid… and the females expect that any male expressing any semblance of interest are just trying to get laid, and in large part are annoyed, contemptuous, and otherwise hostile to that enterprise, not because they never want to get laid but because they are picky and want to choose who, and/or want some additional connection aside from the basic friction of tab A into slot B…

… but the expectation is nevertheless that I, the male, am supposed to make the first move?

Yeah right :rolleyes:

Looking back, more than double that age and flying along on trajectory towards old age and increasing sexual irrelevance, I would add this:

No regrets. I’ve done ok, not great but ok, and from what I can see most males who play the game by the rolerules have a large litany of complaints. Likewise for the females who’ve done so.

5

It’s not that the “sense of being attractive” is more central, it’s that there is a belief out there that men are much less discriminating than women when it comes to sex: if a woman rejects a man, it might be that he’s cute, but not cute enough–not in the top 20% or so. Since people think men will bang just about anything, if a man rejects a woman, she must be truly hideous–like, not in the top 80%.

I am not saying this is actually true. Men can reject women for all sorts of reasons. But women can take it as evidence that they aren’t just “not supermodels”, but that they are actually monsters.

As far as which is harder overall, I don’t think that’s an answerable question. Too many variables, too many subjective elements.

6

I’ll still hold out for this being a factor, but you certainly are right about the difference in selectivitivy.

It may also be that women as a a whole have more at risk when facing a sexual invitation. A woman being reticent may be perceived by the man as a statement about her. A man being reticent may be perceived by the woman as a statement about… her.

Right. We are talking about countless situations involving very different individuals. We can generalize, but all generalizations have weaknesses.

Except for the generalization in my last sentence. :slight_smile:

  • “Jack”
7

For better or for worse, all the usual clichés are alive and well. Men ALWAYS want sex, so if they reject a woman’s advances there must be something really wrong with her, even if he’s married or in a relationship. If she turns them down, she’s probably a prude or on her period or waiting 'til marriage. Or just waiting for him to ‘wear her down.’

Women can have sex with anyone they want, any time they want, so if they’ve had numerous partners it’s no feat (even if they’re ugly, since all guys always want sex, it still wouldn’t be hard to bag a bunch out of sheer desperation).

It’s why ‘banging the entire football team’ is still an insult and ‘screwing the entire cheerleading squad,’ not so much.

8

So, when a man gets rejected, he’s more likely to think “What’s wrong with you?” and when a woman gets rejected, she’s more likely to think “What’s wrong with me?”

9

In my limited experience I would guess that women are “stunted” in this department.

Guys will start asking women for dates as teenagers, or maybe a little earlier. At that time we have no savoir-faire and little maturity to cope with negative results. As a result, there is a predictable torrent of sour grapes, name-calling, etc. Over time, we get calluses, learn better strategies, and by the time we’re in our 40s we’re well on our way to still not knowing what the fuck we’re doing.

Girls where I grew up simply didn’t ask guys out, unless it was a “Sadie Hawkins” dance once a year. They haven’t developed calluses or strategies because their attempts are too few and too far between, hence my use of the term “stunted.”

Multiply the seriousness of asking for a date to reflect the seriousness of offering sex. IMLE women don’t handle THAT rejection well at all.

10

Women’s main source of power is their sex, and ability to withhold it. They get used to constantly withholding it, and rejecting man after man.

Men get used to being rejected. Women, OTOH, don’t really have much experience with it and getting rejected means a total loss of the one sure power they have.

Men, not so much. Win some you lose some. They still retain their power and worth.

A woman who gets rejected has to face the possibility she’s lost her main source of power and control.

Generalizing, of course.

11

The question really has answers that change over the course of time in the relationship, the ages of the couple, and the general physiological differences between genders. Since you referenced Paul in Saudi’s thread, the relationship is as new as it gets, and her hostile response to Paul’s refusal was a little out of line, IMHO. But is that response warranted by the “risk” she took to make the first move? I do not think so. Instead, I think she is a type of person who habitually got whatever she wanted, including sex, and Paul’s “No” set her off on her upteenth tantrum. I think it had little to do with Paul’s desirablity and her own perceived desirability being refused by a man on the first date.

If it was Paul getting rejected on the first date, not so much hostility on his part…not his first rejection, probably not his last. Not as much of an issue.
(On preview, what Levdrakon said)

For men, the real pain of rejection is from a woman you love for a long period of time; one you are committed to and would die for. Being rejected (sexually) from someone you love is the ultimate pain. That’s when you begin to question yourself and your SO and your relationship.

12

I like this. A lot.

When I posted I was thinking about a woman who wanted sex on the first date. She’s a nurse, intelligent, funny, etc. She didn’t go completely to pieces, but she was clearly bewildered. I said, “I want more than that from you.” She proceeded to tell me how good it would have been, how I would have believed in God, etc. By the next date, she was saying, “Well, if I’d let you sleep with me on our first date…” Queen of denial.

There are obviously many women with a lot of things to offer besides sex, but it seems to cut them to the core when they fear they’re lacking in that area. Many claim to want a man who doesn’t see them as just a sex object, but when they get one, they’re not always sure what to do with him.

13

It should be noted that being rejected for anything – sex, a mortgage, a job – sucks no matter whether you happen to be male or female.

It’s all in how you deal with it.

14

Never mind.

But I will say that this sounds to me like a desperate attempt to save face.

15

Desperate attempt to save face. Huh. I can’t imagine how.

16

I supported lev’s statement, and I’ll tell you why…

I’ve known a lot of what you might call “underprivileged” women. They don’t have educations etc. to help them through life. And in many cultures, girls take a very distant second seat to boys, as far as what their families do for them.

To be more concrete, in countries like Mexico, the girl’s job is to be pretty and marry well. The boy—if there’s money, maybe he’s off to college. If not, he’s out there pushing to get a good job because he’s going to be the breadwinner. Tradition dictates, to these people, that she play June Cleaver to his Ward.

My parents were like that. Except that unlike June, my mom worked like a dog—canning produce from the garden, washing diapers by hand, scrubbing on her hands and knees. Nobody ever looked down at the SAHM because dayum, that was a job in and of itself. In countries like Mexico, it probably isn’t much different.

Back to lev’s comments. Being attractive, to these underprivileged women, is a very big deal because their future depends on it. I think in modern Western Culture, we know all about Mary Tyler Moore—women getting out there, doing it for themselves, not depending on a man for fulfillment etc. But women in some places have never dreamed anything like MTM. Culture may dictate that they marry and stay at home…the idea that they wouldn’t marry is anathema.

While I’ll admit it’s old, read The Good Earth. Boy children are cause for rejoicing because they can help work the land, but if a baby girl is born, she’s a “slave.” Wealth comes from boys; girls are a drain, and that’s why there’s a dowry to marry them off.

Even here in the U.S., you know some people are still locked in the old mindset. If it weren’t true, women would be getting paid what men are and we’d have had a female president by now, yadda.

So I’m not saying lev’s post is “good” in the sense that I think that’s how it should be; rather, I’m saying that those roots run deep. You can still see this in action in less-developed parts of the world of course. But I think you can also see the phenomenon in middle America.

17

If **levdrakon ** makes a habit of dating the underprivileged and/or anachronistic, you may have a point. Otherwise, I maintain that “Women reject me in order to exercise the only power they posess” is a pretty self-serving and misognynistic attitude. If he really feels that way, it makes me wonder what exactly he could possibly want with such a useless creature, anyway.

levdrakon, apologies for my original post, it was inappropriate.

18

But isn’t there a lot of residue, Diana?

Example 1: Woman, age 30, professional degree, owns her home, has served in military, yadda. “I expect a man to hold doors for me.”

Example 2: My niece. A “happy surprise” for her folks, who had three boys. She became the darling of the family. The dressed her to the nines, fawned over how pretty she was etc. Now she’s in her twenties and you can bet she knows how to use her wiles. That girl has claws.

I figure there’s probably some hardwiring in our brains to help us survive, and if women had something that told them, “You can use sex to your advantage,” it would help. But I also know culture runs deep and even after science disproves something, people often cling to how they were raised.

Sometimes I think it’s like Animal Farm, where the pigs try to learn to walk on two legs. For all our modern savvy, genetics and culture will ultimately have their way with us on some issues.

19

This kind of statement just floors me. lobotomy’s explanation of culturalized gender roles notwithstanding, do you really believe this is true for the average woman in the U.S.? The notion that my sexuality has anything to do with exerting power and control over other people is absurd and, frankly, insulting.

With regards to the OP, I do not know the answer to this question. I generally don’t even consider sex with someone unless I am deeply into a relationship with them, but historically I have always been willing to make the first move in a relationship. I am not particularly confident about my attractiveness, but I’m not patient once I know my feelings, and I don’t want to waste my time with someone who doesn’t reciprocate. I’ve been both rejected and well-received. The risk is far more emotional than anything else, because if I make a move on a guy it means I really like him. It has little to do with my sense of self-worth; while there may be a temporary blow to my self-esteem, the actual painful part of it is having my hopes about a happy future with someone dashed.

20

Maybe she just really, really wanted to get laid. A woman actually wanting to have sex rather than using it as a bargaining chip has got to fit into the equation somewhere. I know young, beautiful, intelligent women who’ve had guys reject sex, and while I don’t doubt their egos were bruised, their number one complaint is that they didn’t get their rocks off (sure they rubbed one out, but the build up’s not the same).

I do think there is truth to your take on lev’s post.