Alice, I was there, did that, and we’re the same age. After my mother and hers had driven home the message that nobody would ever protect me (either from grandfather or from a groping teacher), my host parents tried to pimp me out to his boss and I did not tell the teacher who was responsible for my group because I didn’t expect any grown up to help me (and was quite amazed when one actually went and did… thank you, Eileen!). Another student in the group got “a bad family” (I don’t know what the exact problem was), told the teachers and got re-placed within 24h.
Things have changed since you and I were first abused. And they have changed because of people telling and because of people saying “this is not acceptable”. You need to tell your aunt: if your uncle is sick, the sooner she becomes aware of it the better; if he’s a pig, then her reaction is her responsibility. She may already know it and, like my grandmother, have decided that “he’s my man and I’m sticking by him” - but please, don’t do like my mother and decide that not rocking the boat is more important than protecting yourself, your children, your aunt’s granddaughter… and hey, if it turns out to be dementia, even your uncle.
R. P. McMurphy “Bottom line, you weren’t physically damaged as in a rape or a beating. If a copped feel can ruin your life, no matter how disgusting you may find it, you are not going to get far in this demanding world if that will traumatize you. A lot worse shit happens. Learn to recognize it, avoid it and move on. Don’t let it become an obsession. That doesn’t mean the you have become an enabler but it’s best to walk cautiously.”
Yeah, just learn to avoid it, will ya Alice? :smack:
Get off your high horse and give us all a break. We’re talking about a guy in his '80 that I and others tend to think is showing signs of dementia.
Would you be happy if I said Alice, “You have been violated in the worst of ways. Nothing in life is more traumatic than someone inappropriately copping a feel of a female breast. It is life-threatening and permanently life damaging. Some women never recover and cannot have a healthly sexual relationship ever again. Seek counseling. Go several time a week. Lock yourself in your room. Take anti-depressant drugs. Wear an iron bra. The horror!”
I’ll stick with “get over it.”
:smack: :smack: :smack:
Does it have to be either/or here? Yes, it could have been worse and yes, it was terrible. Yes, **Alice **should deal with her feelings of being violated and yes, she should (and hopefully will) eventually move on ( I hate the directive ‘get over it’).
Alice, I hope you’re finding some peace and resolution to this situation.
Just from the description, it sounded so clumsy and clueless that in an 80-year old man with ten years of good behavior, it sounds to me like dementia is the most likely scenario here. I’d definitely tell his wife that he was acting inappropriately (skip the details if you want) and that you’re concerned about him, etc.
And remember, if it is dementia, it’s not really his fault and it’s certainly not about you. It wasn’t because he saw you as a suitable victim or anything-- you were just there. Like a baby throwing up on you; it’s icky and unpleasant and not something anybody wants to go through, but doesn’t mean anything about who you are or even what the baby thinks about you.
I’m pretty sure it’s Alice’s past history of molestation that makes it hard for her to just “get over it.” A woman without such a history would have been more able to shrug the incident off (and, I suspect, less likely to use the word “molest” to describe it).
Viewed objectively, what Mr. 80-year-old did wasn’t that bad—not comparable to child molestation, for example, since Alice is a grown woman who is not subservient or dependent on Mr. 80. I am not a psychologist, but would it be reasonable to say that a significant portion of the distress Alice is feeling from this incident is due to whoever molested her when she was younger?
Even a small degree of dementia can effect men and womens abilities to control impulses. People that were very dignified and reserved are suddenly farting, giggling and burping. Child like behavior is the norm. For older guys pinching a butt or squeezing a tit isn’t that unusual. Dementia effects their ability to control themselves.
Think of someone like that as a naughty child. You aren’t going to hate or abuse the child when they misbehave.
Kids do need to be warned if an elderly relative is misbehaving. Caring for the elderly can be very challenging.
My grandmother got very, very quick tempered in the last couple years of her life. This was a lady that adored the church and did a lot volunteer work. Suddenly we were hearing her say words that would make a sailor blush. She’d had several mini strokes and it changed her.
I don’t honestly know what the right thing is - when I saw he was 80 my first thought was also that dementia might be at play, and I see others have voiced the same concern.
I think I’d be inclined to tell the aunt about it because there is the chance he’ll try this with other people. Possibly she’s noticed other inappropriate behaviors as well. Even if not, it’ll help her keep an eye on him for other wrong decisions (financial, behavioral, whatever) and keep him (and her) safe.
From the standpoint of your own history (which I had not known), I don’t know what the best thing is. Certainly “just get over it” is not the right answer in your situation - you’ve got every reason to be mad as hell.
Alice, think you’re taking the episode too personally and it’s clouding your judgment. Let me esplain…no, is too much. Let me sum up:
Proposition 1) Your aunt is married to an avatar of Hugh Heffner, he’s always been a misogynistic letch and under-cover skeeve. You got pounced on the moment he was truly alone with you. You have a duty as a mother and as a human bean to kick the old skeleton out of his nasty closet. You ain’t the first and you ain’t the last.
Proposition 2) Your uncle is growing a grapefruit on his frontal lobe and it’s affecting his personality in such a way that proposition 1 is now the reality.
Proposition 3) You’re uncle’s brain is becoming swiss cheeze and it’s affecting his personality in such a way that option proposition 1 is now the reality. Also, if he’s driving cars (and it sounds like he is) he is placing all kinds of people at risk for his impaired ability to think. Maybe he’ll run over the next Ted Bundy on his way to his first serial killing, or maybe he’ll broadside a school bus and 40 kids will die in a fireball. Probably something in between is more likely.
In any event, it’s very simple. As he stands now, Uncle Ernie does not respect personal boundaries to the extent he’s freaked out a 42 year old and reasonably intelligent woman. If he gropes someone like my 14 year old daughter (or even the 10 year old!) she’ll put him in the hospital.
Alice, I’m really sorry this happened to you. I would be freaked out, too. Anyone groping me isn’t something I can ‘get over’ (and I don’t have a history of molestation, thank the jesus - I’ve just always had issues with people touching me).
I don’t think I’m “taking this too personally”- of course this is going to be said by a man, who has probably never been viewed as just a sex object to be groped in intimate places without his permission. It’s almost impossible, I believe, for a man to know just what it’s like to live like this. And yes, for a lot of women, we live like this. I’m not extremely pretty, or have a gorgeous body (anymore), yet I’ve been touched inappropriately many times in my life. So I have to think that a lot of other women go through this as well. No, it doesn’t destroy me, or make me suicidal or anything, but it’s bullshit. Especially when it’s someone in your family, that you’ve trusted all this time, that you never thought would want to harm you in any way.
I’m really amazed at what a few people in this thread think are appropriate things to say to a woman who has just been groped against her will and is obviously upset about it. If I should ever be sexually interfered with, I guess I’ll know where to come if I want to be dictated to, sat in judgment of, and have my words and motives dissected.
Alice, you don’t deserve to be in this situation; what you do deserve is support in making your decision and affirmation of what you’re going through. I’m glad to see that some people in this thread have decided to offer that.
That’s all fine and good. No, you didn’t deserve it, it shouldn’t have happened, you don’t like it.
I’ve gotten the message that I’m targeted as one of the “insensitive” ones that doesn’t “know what it’s like” or is a male that “can’t understand.”
Let me just say this. I took a beating that almost killed me. I ended up having emergency brains surgery that saved my life. As to sensitivity, I’ve worked with abandoned babies in Haiti. If you want to be the lowest person on the social scale try being an abandoned baby in Port-Au-Prince. I’ve been around the world and seen people in situations that would shock you. At the same time I’ve seen some of these people rise above the horrors they’ve had to deal with. I’m not insensitive, I’m optimistic, and have seen that humans can rise above unimaginable barriers.
So if I’m a pig because I tell someone that had their tit grabbed by an 80 year old man that seems to be demonstrating the early stages of dementia to deal with it and move on, then so be it. As a male, I’ve been inappropriately touched. I’ve been sexually harassed by female and male superiors. I know how things work. I stand by the advice I gave in my first post on this thread.
If you want to let the trauma encompass you and inhibit you then that’s your choice. What happened was unpleasant, intrusive and shocking. However, you suffered no damage that should prevent you from moving forward. In the scheme of things it was a very minor assault and it can be dealt with. If you posted this just to get sympathy and not advice then I’m sorry, I won’t be in that camp.
From here I will go back to the Alzheimer’s patients whose brains are being eaten away and there is almost nothing that can be done about it. If you want to see victims, try taking care of some of these people. Again, Alzheimer’s is rarely diagnosed until it is in the later stages. There is a seven point scale and a person usually has to make it to 3 or 4 before the diagnosis is made. Unless you can give more substantive evidence and more history, I wouldn’t be quick to throw an 80 year man into the sex offender list.
Alice The Goon just accept the support and advice from the people who have offered it and ignore the ones who love to keep the SDMB tradition of coming into threads and shitting on someone who has done nothing wrong but made the mistake of looking for a little support and advice.
No, you’re supposed to not use sarcasm to attack her in her time of distress, especially when you yourself have been molested and have dealt with this crap. You made a vile comment, and she was right to call you on it.
If you don’t like it, stop using sarcasm in delicate situations.
Ugh. What is it with people being unable to understand common decency?
Look, you’ve been treated like shit, buy you declare yourself to be over it. So therefore, you get no sympathy for what you’ve been through.
Annie, on the other hand, is still going this. She’s still not over it. Deciding to tell her to just get over it would be the same thing as me coming up to you when you were almost dead, and telling you just to walk it off. Can you not comprehend how this is inappropriate?
Just because you’ve been through something in your life that is worse doesn’t make her problem insignificant. People cannot control how much something bothers them, and trying to bottle it all up and just continue on is the one surefire way to actually hurt yourself.
If you’ve truly been through what you claim to have been through, then you of all people should understand what is good to say to someone in this situation, and what is going to make them think you are attacking them. You of all people should know that, no matter how true you think your advice is, actually telling someone is going to hurt them. And, as a decent human being, your goal should be to not hurt them, or else you are no better than those who hurt you.
The last line in my comment to Czarcasm should say “Stop using sarcasm in delicate situations when you are not trying to be mean. You can’t expect people in distress to know you aren’t attacking them when you use a method of communication that is often used to attack.”
I am definitely not trying to claim that either of the people who I am responding to are trying to be mean. Just that you have to be extra careful in a thread about someone who has been hurt. My rhetoric is sharp just to make the point to people who seem to prize sharp rhetoric.
… Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time… like tears in rain…:rolleyes: