Why do I get the feeling this is the modern-day, Internet equivalent of “I’m here to fix the cable?”
I don’t see how it’s relevant.
**Autolycus’s **OP was “why don’t girls like ‘nice’ guys” which implies to me that he considers himself a ‘nice’ guy and was having trouble meeting or keeping a girlfriend. Then the rest of his posts are inconsistant as they neither portray him as a particularly ‘nice’ guy (whatever that means) or as someone who has excessive trouble with reationships, other than he does not appear to be currently in one.
So I’m not sure if we should be critiqueing **Autolycus **or ‘why girls don’t like nice guys’.
I think this is your main problem.
If most people can behave themselves at work with people they didn’t pick out themselves but still have to hang out with and cooperate with for 40 hours a week, while awake, then acting nice for a couple of dates doesn’t seem like anything special at all. In fact, it is so unremarkable you only notice when it isn’t there. Niceness is not a bonus, it’s just a minimum requirement.
And the ‘women like jerks’ meme? Ha! You have had three girlfriends who, if you were honest about your life story with them, must have been all aware you were suspended from college due to your troubles with alcohol. Now, I happen to think that somebody who honestly looks at his/her flaws , including liking alcohol too much, can actually belong to that overwhelming majority of perfectly nice people. But do you see how easy it could have been for any guys from those women’s respective social circles to say: “see, they all go for jerks. The guy was suspended from college, he’s a irresponsible lazy drunk. Sigh. Women, what do they want? Am I right or am I right!?”
snort
You have a point.
I think I’ll buy this shirt. Just look at the comments! It’s guaranteed to get the gurlz. http://www.birkoph.com/Wolf_tshirt.htm
In other news, if nobody else has any comments directed towards me, I’m going to let this thread sink into obscurity.
Auto, I have a quick question for you: you’ve said you’ve mostly dated older women, are the women who have you feeling like a Nice Guy lately also that much older than you? And if they are, have you ever explained to them why you broke up with your ex?
Because she’s not unusual for wanting to get married at that age. I like you and your amusing posts, but if I knew you in real life, I wouldn’t date you even if we were mutally attracted to each other. Not just because you’re younger, but because I know you’re not looking to settle down, and I am. Women who are around 30 and interested in the husband-and-kids thing are probably going to shy away from you if they learn you’re not interested in that too, because unlike men there’s only so much time a woman can waste before having kids becomes riskier. Not having compatable goals makes other people unobtainable and less desirable too, and it’s not either of your faults.
The girls that have been getting me down lately have all been around my age. Honestly after 5 pages of this thread I have no idea what you mean by ‘Nice Guy.’ I explained to one why I broke up with my ex, but she is 22 so it wasn’t a problem.
I think this is a strawman, and one that has been pervasive through this thread. I have never complained to any woman that I was interested in that she owed me a fuck or a relationship because I was nice. I merely used to observe, particularly when myself and my peers were less mature, that the non-nice guys got the girls. It’s horseshit to suggest that the nice guys were necessarily whining about any entitlement. Heck, half the time the girls weren’t even talking to the nice guys (the were off flirting with the bad guys). So those girls at least wouldn’t have had the opportunity to hear the whining, even had it been going on.
I think you get a false impression from the fact that some guy is whining (or asking for advice, depending on your viewpoint) on these boards. You are assuming that they are doing the same thing to the girls they are chasing when you have no evidence that is true. In case you haven’t noticed, many people use these boards to talk about and get advice about things anonymously precisely because it is not something they want to, or see it as advantageous to, talk about with their “real life” friends, SO’s etc.
I accept that girls may be more attracted to non nice guys because nice is a euphemism for “boring and lacking confidence”. I accept also that girls might justifiably not be interested in guys who are boring and lacking confidence. I don’t accept for a moment that it is a justifiable assumption that nice guys whine and act entitled with the girls they are interested in.
Someone is whining to ladyfoxfyre - and myself - presenting themselves as a nice guy and representing all “nice guys” as deserving of attention (sometimes, but not always, outright sexual attention). I can absolutely assure you - and click off the names of a dozen “nice guys” I’ve gotten this insight directly from over the years. If this isn’t you, perhaps your problem isn’t really with the women, but with the men who are presenting themselves as representative of “nice guyness.”
You know what isn’t nice? It isn’t nice when you meet someone and start hanging out. He indicates and interest - you respond with no interest in romance, but a desire to be friends. He continues to hang around, continuing to whine and try and wear you down on the romance aspect. When it becomes very clear that you are not going to sleep/date him - he won’t return your calls, you loose a coffee buddy, he stops inviting you along to movies, you discover you didn’t get invited to the Superbowl party he had. Its one thing to meet a guy, have him ask you out, you say no, and never get contact again. Its another thing to invest three months in a friendship - making it clear from early on that its “just a friendship” and then have him disappear when he realizes you meant “not in a millon years.”
You miss my point entirely.
I don’t have a problem. I’m way past the age and time of life where it’s even relevant to me. Way back in my callow days of youth I had a problem and I eventually figured it out. I would not have been helped by “advice” based on an unfair assumption, such as that which I comment upon above, because it would just have pissed me off and made me distrust the advisor’s integrity and motives and stop listening.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a guy who was interested in me tell me, or imply to me that I owed them a fuck or a relationship. This attitude usually comes after some sort of rejection, from guys we are friends with or guys we have rejected. Nobody ever says “I’m entitled to sex because I am so nice” but it’s inferred through the constant disbelief about why women aren’t having sex with them. “Why wouldn’t someone want to fuck me? I’m so nice! I love romance! I open doors for women! Why can’t I get laid?” This belies a sense of being entitled, through the many positive personality traits they have, to sex with a woman.
I also think this “observation” that nice guys don’t get girls is horseshit. You don’t know what any of those guys are like in a relationship. You just see that they don’t obviously have X, Y, and Z big red flag negative quality and think there’s probably nothing wrong with them. Since none of us have been able to define what a nice guy is, but nearly every woman in this thread knows many qualities of a Nice Guy, perhaps we’re not dating them for a reason?
And there is the self-selecting bias again. Because you don’t see it, it doesn’t exist. I won’t give any more general anecdotes, but I personally have had instances where Nice Guys and I had a conversation, I decided “no way in hell” and didn’t associate with them anymore. Why should I give them my attention when I am not interested? Why is your assumption that I am talking to that guy over there because he is so much “badder” than the guy you’d prefer I be talking to?
As I said before, nobody is telling us “you ought to give me sex because I am so nice.” This whining doesn’t come from a guy while he’s hitting on you. It comes from the friends, rejected guys, ex-boyfriends, co-workers, and peers that we associate with every day who just don’t understand.
But look at this thread for instance. You’d be silly not to infer that very same thing from Auto near the beginning of this thread.
It is: What is wrong with women? I am so great, I am smart, attractive, romantic, all around awesome. Why wouldn’t a woman sleep with me? There is nothing immediately wrong with me, which would be an obvious reason why she wouldn’t want to sleep with me, it must be because I am TOO NICE.
If your only defense of why women aren’t sleeping with you is to list all of the negative qualities you don’t have, something’s wrong. As someone earlier said, being “nice” is not a commendable thing. It’s just pre-requisite to having social interaction with people. You have to have more than that.
To everyone (including my younger self’) who complains that ‘nice guys don’t get the girls’, I say…
look around … look at your friends, the people you work with … what do you see? Nice, well-adjusted men in relationships or dating, many of them with hot girls.
If you don’t see that, well maybe you need some new friends.
pdts
Oh I know plenty of those dickheads. He is usually the same guy who tries to play off how “nice” he is. Meanwhile, he is secretly waiting for his opportunity to take advantage of a situation.
Wait…I’m confused. Didn’t you read through all those PUA books alongside TDN and I? You should have a PhD in Niceguyoligy by now. What happened? It’s like you’re back at square one or something. I used that advice to great effect and got myself a girfriend who I’ve been in a relationship with for about a year now.
No, I didn’t read those books. I don’t like a lot of things about the PUA community, but I am interested in giving these books a look. Can you shoot me a link?
64bit all the way…
The proper question is can your bus handle my throughput. Or is there something else I need to know about you :eek:
Much easier to connect, being on the same subnet and all :D. Please god don’t let her be a Novell girl.
OK, this is bullshit. Wondering why you can’t get laid has absolutely dick to do with feeling you’re entitled to get laid. It’s all your interpretation, based, as far as I can tell, on pretty much nothing.
It’s not just wondering why you’re not getting laid, jesus christ. It’s wondering why women aren’t fawning all over you because you’re “SUCH A NICE GUY!!11!1”
Do you really not see how expecting women to have sex with you because of all the nice qualities you think you have sounds like you feel that you are entitled to have sex with women? You need to separate the idea that just questioning the behavior is wrong. Nobody here has said that asking and wondering why you’re not getting lucky is an inherently bad thing or is wrong. What we dislike is the mentality that there must be something wrong with women that they don’t like nice guys like you.
Or else I don’t know how else to explain it to you, but I doubt I’m alone in this.
Its a common enough interpretation if you are a woman talking to other women - so whether “nice guys” are intending it or not, it explains why “nice guys” aren’t getting laid.
In other words - the guys intent has little to do with the perception of the woman at the other end - and since she is the one handing out dates or sex, her perception counts.