No. Expecting something or wondering why something doesn’t happen does not equal feeling you have a right to it. I have never heard this “women owe me sex” stuff or any approximation thereof from anyone but women.
You’ve been a relationship for a year now? Good for you! I remember when you were asking us about dating and stuff.
I haven’t read the whole thread and don’t plan to, so just skip this if you want to, but my take on the nice guy whine is, like others have said (I read part of this page):
- You aren’t such a nice guy.
- Immature girls find bad boys sexier than more mature women do.
- Women do like nice guys. My husband of six years is a very nice guy, and I like him just fine.
Well, women are going to be the demographic with the most first-hand experience with the Nice Guy situation, so I’m not sure I should be surprised. I’ve never said that guys are aware of it necessarily, look at how Auto’s responded to some of the stuff that’s been said here. I have no doubt that Nice Guys don’t have any realistic perception of the situation, after all, they’re the ones with all the allegedly wonderful qualities that all women should love but don’t. So they probably don’t realize that they’re coming off sounding like entitled children.
I’m a self-pitying, insecure loser. 
Wanna date?
So you agree that they don’t actually mean they’re entitled to sex, you just take it that way?
No, I disagree with this misrepresentation of my words. I think they do feel entitled to a women. Because in their eyes, they’re doing everything right to ensure that women like them and want to sleep with them. What I said was, they don’t realize that’s how they come off. And that their perception of reality was skewed. Do you agree with that?
So they do feel entitled but don’t realize that they come off as feeling entitled? No, I don’t agree with that.
They have certainly left me with the perception that they were entitled.
And I’ve heard words to that effect “you should date me, I’m such a nice guy.” “You went out with Dave, I’m nicer than him.”
Of course, I was once the receiving end of the pickup line (directed at a male friend) “she taken?” - so my sample of clueless ‘nice guys’ may be high.
And I’ve been date raped - which definitely seems like an entitlement scenario…and more than once I’ve walked out when a guy wasn’t taking no.
(I was also once on the receipting end of a pickup by a guy putting his phone number on a $100 and handing it to me. I bought a round for my girlfriends. Clueless idiots come in the self assured jerk brand as well.)
If your response, as a Nice Guy, to being rejected is resentment and anger, then yeah, you’re suffering from a sense of entitlement. If your response as a Nice Guy to rejection is What is Wrong With You Women? Then, yeah, that’s entitlement. If your response to rejection is But I Do Everything For YOUUUUUUU All For You!! That’s entitlement. If I do A I should get B. If I don’t get B, it’s your fault, not mine. That’s entitlement.
Guys are attracted to breasts. Women are attracted to “bad boys”.
These are broad strokes, but it’s just the way people are wired.
Asking why women are turned on by “bad boys” is just as useless as when women ask why men are attracted to breasts/good looks.
Soft, wimpy-looking guys just don’t get womens’ juices flowing. Ugly, flat-chested women just don’t get mens’ juices flowing. Accept it.
Everyone is different of course, yada yada yada…
Nice guy rants about why “women just won’t do [X, Y, Z]” almost always equals the wahhhhhmbulance. I’ve only ever heard them from the type of men who aspire to playerdom and treating women like crap but are too insecure to do so.
My feeling is that the solution to this is to focus on oneself in terms of higher education and improved job prospects. Either you will
-
Mature in the process, improve your personal situation and find a lovely partner.
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You will mature in the process but spend all your time working and making loads of money such that you have a hard time finding a girl to tolerate your schedule. OR
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You will stay arrested in mental development but acquire the earning potential to attract the type of shallow women you both desire and merit.
All around, it’s a win-win. Except for Possibility #2 but at least you’ll be wealthier and more powerful.
Exactly. I just wish women would stop being hypocrites about it.
No one in this thread has said anything to indicate that we - women - are being hypocritical. This thread doesn’t address the stupid shit women do. And we do just as much. I’m sure all the ladies in this thread would agree.
ETA: Stupid, immature women who make us all look like crap and I wish they’d knock it off. It’s an embarrassment to us all.
Explain, if you would, how this thread demonstrates your contention that women are hypocrites (and about what, exactly, the Nice Guy thing? relationships in general? Who and what they are attracted to? I’m not sure), or that any of the “broad strokes” given by Polerius are really true. Otherwise, I call bullshit.
Never said this thread in particular demonstrated it. The hypocrisy is that women claim not to like bad boys when in fact they do.
I don’t have an easy way of proving them. By way of anecdote, there was a survey done about “what women want”. They asked several questions. Of the more than fifty questions, the following three were placed far apart in the survey:
- Which quality do you like the most? A: Humor
- Who is funniest?(from a list of Hollywood actors) A: Woody Allen (back when he was younger)
- Who would you want to take to a desert island with you? (from a list of Hollywood actors) A: Antonio Banderas.
(The answers mentioned above were the most popular answers)
I would like to take this opportunity to state that I think Woody Allen is a hack and utterly unfunny and Antonio Banderas was more tingly-inducing when he was playing gay men in Spanish films.
Seriously.
Just thought I’d throw that out there. But you’re right Mr. Pole - heh - no one has the corner on stupid dating/mating/attraction crap. However, I say again that we were talking about this one issue (Nice Guys and why women hate that shit). Someone needs to open a thread about how both men and women tend to The Suck. We’ve never had one of those, have we? I don’ remember.
Maybe it was their intuition telling them that Woody Allen is the type of guy who’d live with you for years, in a marital-esque relationship, and then bone your adoptive daughter.
OTOH, Antonio Banderas is pretty hot and seems to have not slept with his wife’s children.
Well, I do. It’s quite true.
We’ve been going over this same subject in thread after thread. IRL, I’ve heard guy after guy after guy bitch and moan about how he’s a “Nice guy” and women don’t like “nice guys.”
In every case I’ve ever encountered, the alleged “Nice guy” has an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, and a very underdeveloped awareness of the fact that he’s not actually as nice as he thinks he is, and that it’s not his niceness that’s turning women off. Not some, or most. All. Every single one. All the nice guys I know who are actually nice guys seem to do well with women. All the “nice guys” I’ve ever met who complained about this were woefully unaware of the fact that they were shitheads.
You’re free to disbelieve this too, if you like.
It’s this sort of thing that suggests an amazing unconsciousness to me. I mean, just what the fuck is this supposed to be taken to mean?
Are you saying women don’t like nice guys because they said they’d rather be with Antonio Banderas on a desert island than Woody Allen? From what possible logic do you draw this conclusion? I’m just fascinated as to what the hell you’re tying to get across here.
Are you saying “funny” is equivalent to “nice”? It’s not. Lots of funny people are assholes, and lots of nice people have poor senses of humor. Are you suggesting Woody Allen is a nice guy? Given the fact that he cheated on his de facto wife with her adopted daughter, I’m going to jump out on a limb here and say he’s got a lot of asshole in him. And you saying Antonio Banderas is NOT a nice guy? By all anecdotal accounts I have heard, he is a decent gentleman. Are you suggesting that, by electing not to spend their time on a desert island with Woody Allen, who in addition to being funny is also a neurotic sex maniac who’s afraid of leaving New York City and would be about as useful on a desert island as a bag of hair, in favour of Antonio Banderas, who at least looks like he could last two hours without collapsing in terror and agoraphobia, they are rejecting nice guys?
I honestly can’t figure out what you mean by
“my biggest wish in the world is for her to be truly happy”
Is this just a quality you want in a woman, such as my biggest wish in the world is for her to have large breasts" or my biggest wish in the world is for her to be truly wealthy"? Or do you somehow think that you will be the cause of her happiness or otherwise in charge of it? Or are you looking for someone who can’t be happy without you? I really don’t get it.
What I do get is that you are waxing poetic about how scary strong and intense your perfect love is and how deeply it affects you and YOU DON"T HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. You are making up this fantasy woman and this fantasy relationship and then expecting some unsuspecting real woman to jump into your daydream feet first.
The truth is, kid, some relationships are scary deep and strong and some are years of “what the heck, I’ve gotta change the sheets tomorrow anyway” and most land somewhere in the middle. You just don’t know until there is a another person involved…and both you and that person will be better off if you can be happy without each other but want to be together just the same.
But if you insist on holding out for someone that needs you to make her happy, I suggest that you look for SWJF’s in the New York Press, women that need green cards and psychotics and bipolars.