Maybe it’s bad to have the relationship “based” on it, but that game can be a lot of fun now and then. Makes sex less of a routine, somehow.
I agree with those who mentioned finding someone whose sex drive is similar to your own. If you like it every night but your SO prefers a monthly schedule, things will not work out well in the long run. People can adapt, but sex is a very basic drive and I get the feeling it’s hard to change.
The problem with this is that in sex, both parties have to eat the bait. If being “a bit kinky” is distasteful to this hypothetical woman, how much is the sex worth it to her? “Oh yeah, I had to get covered in 10W30 and have a baseball bat up my ass, but at least he stuck his dick in me” - somehow doesn’t seem like a win-win.
My depressing thought for the morning (based on Really Not All That Bright’s “Danzig vs Simmons” comment upthread) is that while ugly fat men still can get some from women who see past it, women are completely screwed (or not, Hah!) in that arena. I guess maybe my “woosh” is more accurate than I thought. Seeing as this thread has degenerated into the standard “Lose weight, fatty!” vs “Shallow pig!” fight.
That’s a pretty specific idea.
I’d say there are quite a few men who see past it, especially on this board. Some men prefer heavy women, while some men don’t care one way or another, and some prefer thin. Just like women have preferences.
I know some women who feel it isn’t right to be “shallow” when picking a partner. I honestly don’t see it as shallow to seek out people we find attractive. If someone only cares about appearances and nothing else, then I’d say that was a bit shallow. I see nothing wrong with attaching a physical expectation to your romantic partner.
I work hard to stay fit and be healthy. I expect the same from a man I’m with. If he decided he didn’t want to be fit anymore and started gaining weight, I’d (gently) say something about it. If it got to the point where I didn’t find him physically attractive, choices would have to be made.
I hear where you’re coming from, but you’ll have to pry my bacon from my cold, dead, greasy hands.
I think this is the biggest thing. Just being available for sex is not enough. I think I can safely speak for all men when I say that one the the biggest turn-ons for us is when the women demonstrates that she wants, nay needs, to get some. That’s one of the reasons why lingerie works so well. Not only does it look great, it sends the message that “I want you to do me now!”
Sure - but it’s very telling that when this subject comes up, the focus is on the physical, not the emotional/mental, which strongly suggests that the physical component is much more important than people’d like to admit.
Just look at the thread, and the amount of focus and assumptions made about weight vs any other aspect.
Ah, but the “what was I thinking?” people aren’t the ones who stay in the relationship and gripe about the sex (or lack thereof.) They’re the ones who either leave or start screwing around. The ones who stay and gripe know exactly what they were thinking, because they still think it: that he’s great guy and they have a great relationship. They’ve weighed it all up and decided they’d rather be with him and mostly celibate than be without him and fucked silly. But like most people, they’d really rather like to have the best of both worlds.
mr. jp, I’m sure you’re familiar with hyperbole. Still, she has a very valid point. The further the sex your partner wants is from the kind of sex you want, the less worthwhile a pursuit it is, from the return on investment perspective. Think about it–whatever it is he’s wanting, there’s a reason she’s not been doing it, either she thinks it’s gross or the idea just leaves her cold. If she does this stuff, she’ll get laid, but she won’t much enjoy it. If she’s not gonna enjoy it, it’s a waste of her time and effort, so why bother?
Damn - missed the edit window:
. . . which strongly suggests that the physical component is more important than anything else **despite protestations to the contrary. **
In your own post you say “I honestly don’t see it as shallow to seek out people we find attractive”, but you use the unmodified word “attractive” as shorthand for the contextual “physically attractive”. The subtext is “Physical Attractiveness = Attractiveness”.
If it’s distasteful to her, then fine, she’s made her choice. But she shouldn’t fool herself about the situation. Anyway, when I said “a bit kinky,” I didn’t have extreme bondage in mind.
I wonder what the best advice is for a man who thinks flowers on Valentine’s Day are a waste of time and money.
Turn gay?
Find a woman who agrees with that assessment. Plenty of us out there.
Hyperbole aside, doesn’t that just prove my point? If the action - motor oil or lingerie - is distasteful, she’s made her choice. Either way, she has to eat the worm or STFU.
By doing that, the guy would almost certainly have to compromise in other areas which may be more important to him. If you have the looks and money of Brad Pitt, then sure you can rule out any girl who doesn’t meet your exacting criteria.
But for ordinary guys, it’s easier just to just suck it up (so to speak) and buy flowers a couple times a year.
If that’s your point, then yeah. As I said, I think a lot of American women want more sex from their husbands, but they have no interest at all in doing what will actually turn the guy on.
That’s because I meant physical attractiveness. I don’t want to be with someone I don’t find physically attractive. There are also emotionally and intellectual requirements too, but that’s a whole different thread.
I don’t expect physical perfection and I know that no one can stay young looking forever, but if the guy I’m with let himself gain weight to the point that it made him unattractive to me I would have a problem with it. Now, he could certainly tell me to go straight to hell and be within his rights to do so, but those are the breaks for both of us. I’d do what I could to help him lose weight if he wanted to, but I can’t say I’d be too jazzed to have sex with someone I wasn’t physically attracted to.
AFAICT, if your wife doesn’t agree, then maybe you should reconsider if they are.
Well, no offense, but it doesn’t have to be either/or. The fact that the Lovely and Talented Mrs. Shodan is making an effort to hit my hot buttons is attractive even if my hot buttons are merely physical.
Enthusiasm and initiative are very strong communicators of “I value you, you are important to me” because it shows that she is paying attention to what I want, and is willing to try to supply it.
She stays in shape, because it is a common interest, and we both make an effort to find common interests. And also, because she knows I like it. And sometimes she does stuff simply because she knows I like it. That sends a really strong message, both in itself and also because she took the trouble to do it.
I was gonna say “isn’t it obvious that a marriage should work that way” but I guess it isn’t. Sometimes you make an effort on the other person’s behalf, just because you know they like it. You don’t say “oh, that’s shallow” or 'why should I write you love letters when I live with you, for heaven’s sake".
When you’re married, you use the opportunity of living together to figure out what drives her crazy, so you can do less of that, and what she likes, so you can do more of it. And she does the same thing to you.
And, if you play your cards right, you wake up twenty-seven years later, and notice that she is wearing that purple underwear with the lace. And you remember that the bra unfastens in front…
Regards,
Shodan
The physical component is probably the most important for most people in the intial attractiveness stage of the relationship.
After that, its a continuum - as is behavior. I don’t mind my husband’s teddy bearishness - if he becomes grossly obese, that would be an issue for me. I don’t mind if my husband goes drinking with the guys. If he becomes an alcoholic and can’t kick it, I’m not sure I’m sticking by him forever. Likewise, as we’ve had this conversation recently, me deciding to live life as a man is a dealbreaker for him, and I can respect that. One of my girlfriends left her husband when he became a conservative Christian and had very specific ideas of what their marriage should be like - that wasn’t an acceptable amount of change to her. On the other hand, I know someone who won’t divorce no matter what, and therefore when her husband brought home a new woman, they now live in a dysfunctional threesome. Would be an unacceptable level of change to me, but she felt her vows could not be broken and so she is still there holding her ground.
Over time, there is a reasonable amount of change a person will go through - and perhaps an unreasonable amount of change. Everyone will have their line at a different point.
This whole question depends upon the age of the marriage, familial circumstances (children, work, etc.), and the specifics of the past history of the two. Take, for example, the family in “American Beauty.” They obviously needed counseling.
It also depends upon the men. Men vary as much as women do. If I were a wife whose husband wanted to play video games all weekend, I’d consider that grounds for divorce (of course, California legal code doesn’t accommodate for that, but who knows? Our state is kind of a ground-breaker in such things.
Then compare that to a young couple who have been together for a short time, maybe a year, not even married, no children, not even living together–but he loses sexual interest. His [del]reasons[/del]–motivations–could just because he got into a relationship for sex, and then finally realized that after the sex, now what? That is to say, he needed to grow up a little.
One can have sex only so often.
I’m ashamed to say I’ve gotten into this position a couple of times. I’ve stupidly gotten into relationships with women who are gorgeous and sexually irresistible and compatible, but who ultimately end up to be boring.
The number one reason for me: LACK OF CURIOSITY ON THEIR PART.
But that can vary so much. For some guys it could be lack of interest in the NFL. Fine.
So, OP, if you’re really interested in getting into the marriage counseling business, I’d advise this: find out what your man wants to talk about when you’re NOT have sex. Then the sex will happen.
And here may lay the root of the problem. Gifts are given, I hope, based on what the recipient would like, not the giver. If someone doesn’t get that giving flowers or candy or anything else is a good idea because your romantic partner likes it, I’d not be surprised if the relationship were headed for the crapper. Perhaps if we all spent some time concentrating on making our SOs happy, they will concentrate on making us happy.
Most people (and I haven’t seen any statistics indicating men are more svelte on average than women) don’t need to be informed if they are overweight. Perhaps love for a person as they are would encourage more to decide to lose weight on their own accord? Concentrating on making sex great for your partner will probably get you more of it in the long run. I’m seeing a lot of posts in this thread that treat sex as a one-performance only special engagement. If you are married and/or living together, it shouldn’t be such a big deal. It doesn’t even require dinner and a movie.
This doesn’t mean that there aren’t couples who are fundamentally incompatible. But, for the most part, a happy relationship isn’t rocket science.