In some ways, I don’t mind losing Natlaw (sorry), because I had him pegged as town and was thus beginning to wonder if I was being played. I’m happier having people I’m genuinely suspcious of in the suspect pool.
Masons shouldn’t lie. There job, once out, is to be trusted townies. Lying somewhat mitigates against this. I admit I was wondering when the fourth mason was going to claim. Also, well done to **Hockey Monkey **for not claiming immediately when she was the last unknown mason.
**Brewha **- the case against him is more than just his voting pattern. I’ll try to dig up my original Day 6 (?) case with quotes and cites but the headlines are: making the game nothing more than a choice between **Hawk **and Cookies; slavishly following **Hawk’s **wishes because “he was town”; pushing (along with **JSexton **and Millit) for **MHaye **to be “tested” by the Vig rather than lynched; taking quotes out of context to build an attack on me. Finally, as zeriel points out, **brewha **has just smudged pedescribe, much as **macey **did in Day One.
I’m happy to go with **brewha **today but we need to look at who we want out of the suspect pool. Unless anyone makes a strong case for someone, my suggestion is that we go with Nanook, followed by zeriel, simply because they’re dead weight. They given us hardly anything to go on, and in the end game that will make it impossible to get any real fix on them.
I disagree as completely as it is possible to disagree–in a game where there is a masonry, in which one mason is dead so we know they’re pro-town, the masons should absolutely lie in ways that manipulate the scum into making sub-optimal plays (as seen here) – for the scum to utterly waste a nightkill on the unconfirmed pool last Night was a huge gamble for them, and ultimately poor play now that we and they know they got a random unconfirmed vanilla.
That’s fine as a one-off tactic. But now that the genie’s out of the bottle, you’ll have town in future games wondering if they should trust what the masons are telling them. (Even if they type it in large font all caps.) And if town don’t trust, for example, something as simple as the number of masons remaining, it could lead them down some fairly unproductive avenues.
For example, everyone I’ve been looking at I’ve been asking myself, “is this just a mason who knows they’ve got cover?” Now I have to go back and see what I might have overlooked.
But your point about future games is not. In Arkham Nights, the masons were notorious liars–first lying about their numbers, then setting a different mason up as the Penguin, then claiming different things about their win condition (which was odd).
Like here, it worked. The scum killed the stooge mason, effectively wasting their NK. Like here, they got chewed out by a few different people for doing so. However, like here, they were still town. And in the next game, there was no fretting about scum pretending to be masons.
Honestly I trust no masonry until the first member dies and gets mod-confirmed–a lot of our moderators (meta-game alert!) have decided of late that masonries are to be fucked with to town’s detriment.
Wow Pede, you’re making my head spin. You go from “Brewha is likely town, I’m not voting for him and encourage other to not vote for him” to “Brewha is scum” in 9 minutes. Based on the post of a player we haven’t heard from in days?
Whatever. I’ve said it before. We’re so far ahead right now that my lynch isn’t really going to affect the outcome of the game.
But, lemme adress Zeriel’s comment:
His gambit didn’t ‘work’. It was pointless and I don’t see what mission was accomplished. Sure, it didn’t hurt the town - but I don’t see that it really helped the town either.
We’re not on the verge of losing. There’s no reason at this point to lie and take chances. Worst case scenario - we are at 8 town and 2 scum. Most likely we are at 9 town and 1 scum.
Why lie at all? What’s the point. There was no need for the gambit.
That said, yeah the smudge was baseless. I just don’t see the reason for a mason to abuse our trust at this point.
I said I’d look up There are other facets to the case against brewha. Assuming that I’m allowed to edit quotes of myself, here are:
and
Brewha’s “smudging of MHaye voters” post got picked up by various people:
because of the four people who moved to MHaye, two were known town (Cookies and Total Lost). So it seemed odd to call that “precipitated by scum”.
Brewha’s defence is here:
Then there’s this - the “test MHaye with a Vig” idea. An idea that was first proposed by JSexton and backed by Millit.
Finally, there’s an odd pair of posts on the quality of MHaye’s roleclaim:
As soon as brewha is questioned over the quality of MHaye’s roleclaim, he starts backtracking from “a well written role claim” to “the PM was kind of over the top”.
Coupled with voting patterns and today’s smudge of the masons, there’s lots of reasons to
At first I didn’t understand the case at all. Then I looked at AH’s case against you and wasn’t convinced. So I unvoted. Then I looked at Zeriel and Amrussel’s cases against you, which were more convincing. So I voted you.
No. It did work. If I hadn’t said anything at night, either I or HM or TL would be dead, which would mean that you had to evaluate one more person (Natlaw). It’s not a large advantage, overall, but it’s a significant advantage.
I lied because I had an opportunity to help the town, which, given how well confirmed I was, had more or less no downside (That’s assuming you lynch anyone claiming to be a fourth mason). Why waste it?
I gotta say ped, you certainly love you some gambits huh? As it turns out, you are correct, this one definately worked out in Town’s favor. Still a risky move to take.
The voting patterns and other information regarding brewha are certainly compelling. The funny thing is it almost doesn’t matter, barring something completely ridiculous in the hands of the last scum. And I say last scum becasuse I just can’t see this game being balanced with 7 scum and 2 killing PFKs to start. 6 and 2 is already pushing the line.
Since I can see this Day being a slow one, something to discuss. Should we mass claim at this point? The pros are obviously to pin everyone down to something specific so there’s no last minute shennanigans. The con would be the possibility that there’s a protective role still out there, based on the no kill night we had recently. Of course, there’s no guarantees that the no kill was caused by a protective role, there may be other things at work there. I think I’m leaning slightly towards the mass claim side at this point, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
I had do to something to cancel out the horrific stupidity in SMB.
And I’m down with a mass claim. I think it should work out in our favor at this point. One thing I’m curious about, though, is Cover PMs for the scum.
We don’t know what Macey or Bufftabby would have done, but we do know that MHaye had a well-written, storyteller-like PM. However, we also know that both JSexton and Millit the Frail both claimed vanilla. Granted Millit alluded to being vanilla way earlier, but I would think that if JSexton had some sort of cool cover role, he would have used it. Meaning, there are a few possibilities:
a). MHaye & the other scum wrote a cover PM, but didn’t have time to write more than one.
b). Storyteller gave the scum one cover PM, and they decided to use it on MHaye.
c). Storyteller gave the scum 2 cover PMs, and the other one is being used by AH
d). Storyteller gave the scum 2 cover PMs, and the other one will be used by the last scum once he or she claims.
e). Storyteller gave the scum 6 cover PMs, but JSexton decided not to use one for some reason.
I don’t see c, d, or e as very likely, since JSexton had no good reason not to use a cover PM, and 2 seems like a random number to use for cover PMs.
a is certainly possible, given how good MHaye and JSexton are at writing. If so, though, why did they run out of time for JSexton? That doesn’t make much sense.
Personally, I think b is likeliest. Meaning the last scum will probably claim vanilla, or not quote his role PM directly.
As for the mass role claim, I think if AH is honest, it’s safe to assume we have a protective role (given the no-kill Night, it’s also probably we have one even if AH is lyning, unless we got a lucky roleblocker)
I would suggest, that if we do have a mass role claim, that one of our masons determines the claim order randomly.
Dunno if you’re referring to Idle’s game, but EVERYBODY was fucked with in that game… the alternating wincons that made us Masons into PFK’s was always intended to settle down with us aligned with Town. We were Town all along, we just didn’t know it.
[Captain O’Hagan] I swear to God I’m going to pistol whip the next guy who says, " Gambit."
[/Captain O’Hagan]
Seriously, it was a small potential gain for the price of lying as a mason. I think it was a dumb move.
Don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back there Pede.
In other news, I’m all in favor of a mass claim. Didn’t we purpose a preset order at the beginning of the game?
A small potential gain, realized. And why is lying as a mason such a big price? It’s not like I lied about something connected to my alignment, which is still just as townie as before. I covered the potential base of a fourth mason crawling out of the woodwork…and I’ll be honest; if I could find a way to win, right now, that would make all future games as a townsperson harder, I would, no question. We shouldn’t be playing for the future–we should be concentrating on this game, now. And in this game, I brought the town a small but significant gain. Why is that dumb?